00:00:00
Speaker 1: Yes. How was your second week with Nikki?
00:00:04
Speaker 2: Uh, boring, actually. Or.
00:00:08
Speaker 1: It's. Okay.
00:00:12
Speaker 2: Let me check. I understand. Yeah. Um, there was a really. I just checked on her every day, but they didn't seem to be a lot of change, and I think really died.
00:00:24
Speaker 1: So since we discussed the position. Yeah. Last week, you didn't see any change?
00:00:32
Speaker 2: Uh, no.
00:00:34
Speaker 1: Okay. I'll be sad to hear. How did you feel about it?
00:00:45
Speaker 2: Well, like the damage was already done. That was the feeling that I got.
00:00:50
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:00:51
Speaker 2: And you didn't try other things other than the window?
00:00:57
Speaker 1: No, because I think that it was a good position that it was in. Okay. It was a bit.
00:01:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:01:07
Speaker 1: Too late. Yeah.
00:01:08
Speaker 2: So probably already died.
00:01:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
00:01:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, but that happened. Yeah. Um. Okay. Let me see what I can still interview you about.
00:01:28
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:01:29
Speaker 2: Well, but at least there's one thing that in the beginning, of course, we discussed that there were the three different states. Like the worst state would be like Orangy Green, and then it would get better, it would get green. But there is like another worst state, and that is that it gets white and then it dies. So I was thinking about it that I didn't really see the changes in it. If I would have known that that would mean that she was dying, then I would have better responded that it probably.
00:01:59
Speaker 1: I see.
00:02:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I didn't include the stage where it's not alive anymore. So yeah, the worst stage, it means it's still sort of alive. Yeah. The white means it might be disappearing or the like. The liveliness is gone. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good reflection. I should have included it. Yeah. So you didn't know what the white means? Actually, in the beginning.
00:02:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought maybe it was getting better because. Okay, that at least I didn't think it was getting worse.[JZ1]
00:02:33
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:02:33
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.
00:02:34
Speaker 2: Then because I was checking it over the days the last week and I thought, oh, maybe it's getting gaining back a bit of color. Oh, no, not really. Um, and then in the end I concluded it. It was just already too late. Um, but in the first week I thought, oh, there is a slight change of color happening. Maybe this is the process towards getting greener because it also seemed a bit of bluish.
00:02:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You told me about the bluish thing.
00:03:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. Which turns out that it's, it's more. It's like an opaque. Things like this. Moonshine ish.
00:03:08
Speaker 1: It's getting more.
00:03:09
Speaker 2: Kind of stone. Yeah. Yeah, but this is white, but it's a bit bluish, so I thought that was a good change in the beginning. Yeah.
00:03:17
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah, that's a pity we didn't. Yeah, I didn't. Uh, because from the picture you sent, I saw it was still a bit greenish, so I also didn't get this warning from the picture. And then until I saw it in the video and at the end of the first week. Yeah. Okay. So, um, but anyways, I would continue with the questions. Some of them were already covered and some of them it becomes irrelevant because you didn't see any change. Um, but did you feel motivated still in the second week to look after Nicki?
00:04:05
Speaker 2: Um. Well, in a sense that I was checking on her. Uh, that I did, yes. But then I also kind of concluded that there would not be a lot of things to do anymore, so I didn't take action. So there was a motivation, but there was also this idea that it wouldn't help if I did something else.
00:04:31
Speaker 1: You sort of lost your hope at some point.
00:04:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, I drew a conclusion. Yeah.
00:04:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:04:38
Speaker 2: It's like when a plant has already died, then.
00:04:40
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:41
Speaker 2: At some point, you decide it's dead. Yeah.
00:04:44
Speaker 1: Okay. What would you think can motivate you more in this process?
00:04:53
Speaker 2: Um, well, I think it really would help to be better aware to understand the communication. I think that was the most important thing that was lacking.
00:05:06
Speaker 1: Uh.
00:05:07
Speaker 2: Hey, are you more. Hello? So then it was a bit. Difficult to look after it because didn't really know how to.
00:05:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I guess the colors you see didn't really speak to you what you should do at that moment. And you would like to know, for instance, what it means and what actions you should take at certain. Yes. Change. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and how much of a good carer do you think you were for the two weeks? Um, you can choose between excellent carer, sufficient carer, average carer or a bad carer.
00:05:57
Speaker 2: Um. I think it was average. Yeah. It also depends on the kind of like level of maintenance that it asks for.
00:06:12
Speaker 1: Even if it died. Even if she died, you.
00:06:15
Speaker 2: Think it's not because of bad will? It's because of misunderstanding. Yeah.
00:06:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it.
00:06:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:06:23
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:06:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:06:26
Speaker 1: And I say that because I did want it. I was looking. I didn't forget about her. And I checked on her every day. Yeah. And then when I checked, I decided, should I take action or not? And I didn't think that by doing anything that I could improve the situation. So in that sense, I. But I wasn't. The thing is that I wasn't at home a lot. So when I checked, it was usually just once every day. And I don't know if it would help to move her around during the day.
00:06:59
Speaker 2: So for you.
00:07:00
Speaker 1: It is more of the process that defines care instead of the results. For instance, we can try our best to do many things right, and then even if it turned out not so well, but the caring still happens.
00:07:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a bad mother.
00:07:18
Speaker 1: But I tried it anyway.
00:07:21
Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, I understand. And besides communication problem you mentioned. So the lack of communication between you and Nikki. Is there any other things that you think could improve the result of it? Maybe. The care results.
00:07:45
Speaker 1: Well, I think it would be like, for instance, if you would, um. Decide to take a living Artefact in your home that you are aware of what kind of level of care it needs. For instance, with the Corona epidemic, many people took a little dog because they thought, Oh, that's nice company, but they had no idea of how much or like care it needs and how much time and energy it asks of you. So now all the pets are in the asylum.
00:08:26
Speaker 2: Really?
00:08:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Many people, they didn't really think about it. They didn't think it through. Okay. Yeah. And also that the epidemic would end and they would have, like, normal social lives again. So they didn't foresee the consequences of taking care of a living thing. I see. Like a baby. So I think that the same applies to if you take in a living Artefact that you are aware beforehand about what kind of energy it takes. If there should be a food for you that you are at home daily or that you can move it around during the day. I don't know if it. Yeah, probably in the beginning I should have put it in a different place and didn't understand the color communication, so I didn't respond to it.
00:09:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:09:20
Speaker 1: Um.
00:09:21
Speaker 2: So that would have probably made a difference. But also, I know at the same time that I wasn't at home a lot. Yeah. So I couldn't have provided like a level of care where I would have moved her around many different times during the day.
00:09:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So even before you, you take it, the sort of anticipation of how much you should get involved in the care. Maybe more clear instructions. For instance, if you're not at home for this, this time, it might not be very good for the Artefact. This kind of anticipation should be there in the very in the very beginning. [JZ2]Is that what you mean? Yeah.
00:10:04
Speaker 2: I think if because, for instance, if people have plans, then, you know, at some point that they are in the correct position so you don't have to move them anymore. You kind of know what they like. And then you know that if you go away for a few days, you don't have to ask anyone to take care of it. But if you go away for three weeks, then you should ask someone to take care of your plans.
00:10:28
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:10:29
Speaker 2: So that's once you build a relationship with an organism, you kind of get to know its needs.
00:10:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:36
Speaker 2: And also which responsibilities you then have for it? Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. So was this kind of microbe. It is extremely hard in the beginning because we or you didn't have any idea of. And so everything starts with exploration, right? And it was more like finding a way in the in the dark. And if if it was all right in the beginning, then it would make it easier. But if the beginning was sort of wrong or not optimal, it will it will make it even more difficult because you don't have the relation yet. You don't know what to do. And also you are not always at home. And yeah, so that makes it extra difficult. Yeah, I see.
00:11:23
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes. And also realized that with the color codes that you applied that because I didn't really see it like in the Artefact that it also made it a bit difficult for me to make the connection somehow. Yeah. So now you decide. It seems strange because it's very clear you give it to me. The paper you say this is the color that it will turn, but I see something different and I think it would maybe help to have a video of seeing the color change.
00:11:58
Speaker 1: I see.
00:11:59
Speaker 2: So not not a graphic imitation of it, but the actual Artefact.
00:12:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
00:12:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get the point. Yes. Yeah. Okay, great. Is there anything else that you want to mention?
00:12:16
Speaker 1: Um.
00:12:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bit strange. I think maybe also the shape has to do with how you perceive it as a thing or as a sheet.
00:12:36
Speaker 1: Can you elaborate more?
00:12:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of two dimensional.
00:12:43
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:12:44
Speaker 2: It's very flat and thin, and that makes it for me less. And. Maybe more difficult to perceive it as either an object or an organism because it looks just like a sheet of paper to the object. In that sense, it's not really alive.[JZ3]
00:13:09
Speaker 1: Yeah. So does it feel sort of unfinished object to you?
00:13:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. For me, it feels more like a test material rather than the actual.
00:13:23
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:25
Speaker 2: And the.
00:13:26
Speaker 1: Fact because.
00:13:27
Speaker 2: The. I don't really understand the. The dark part at the top. Why? It's there.
00:13:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's meant to be providing some degree of shade. To the to the living organism. So if you, for instance, if you put it in a bright place and you are sort of afraid or you anticipate there's going to be some direct sunlight on it sometime later, you could when you leave the place, you could fold it and let the dark part provide a kind of shelter to the Cyanobacteria. So even if you are away and there's direct sunlight, it provides a kind of protection to it.
00:14:13
Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, that's, I think if that's really clear in the instructions, that would also make more sense that that's what it's meant to use for. [JZ4]Because you said, yeah, this is kind of a shadow part or that's the way that I remember it.
00:14:29
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:31
Speaker 2: And then make the connection. Okay. But I didn't really understand.
00:14:34
Speaker 1: I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you would be better if that's also clear in the instruction because I sort of left it to interpret for the participants.
00:14:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:14:47
Speaker 1: And because also it was if in the combination it likes bright places and this is the shadow part, I for me it would be like too dark to understand that it provides everything that it gets automatically because you can't almost can't see through it so that it takes away too much sunlight to.
00:15:07
Speaker 2: Actually.
00:15:08
Speaker 1: Still function.
00:15:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:15:12
Speaker 1: And is there anything nice about the the shape of the Artefact? Or the form of it. Or the material of it?
00:15:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, uh. Actually, I think it's really nicely done.
00:15:31
Speaker 1: Also, yeah.
00:15:34
Speaker 2: It's a bit. Um. Well, it's a bit sad that the colors were disappearing, but I can imagine that it gets more beautiful also over time when it starts to become more healthy. You can perceive this change in colors. I think the material itself is nice to touch. The downside is that it's a bit prone to getting dirty. Yeah. So then it changes really from this very tacit thing that's like, ooh, nice until something. Ooh, you know? Yeah. Sandy Silicone isn't really appealing to touch.[JZ5] Yeah. I think that that's also could be a reason why I wouldn't be so prone to take it with me because of this quality that it tends to get dirty. Um. Yeah. It's a bit incomprehensible in the shape.
00:16:44
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:16:47
Speaker 2: Incomprehensible. As like you don't understand why it's in this shape.
00:16:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially with the black part. Now that you explain it, then I understand why it's there. So it makes more sense already. And also, like this queue of how to use it. Yeah. Yeah, but it's not. It's because it's not really a like any other object that or thing that I know. Yeah.[JZ6]
00:17:15
Speaker 2: And how does this incomprehensibility make a difference to your interaction to it?
00:17:26
Speaker 1: Um.
00:17:28
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't give, uh, in that sense, the shape by being so unfamiliar doesn't really give a clue on how to use it.
00:17:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:17:39
Speaker 2: Or in some part because it's kind of sticky. So I thought, Oh, I can put it at the window. That's nice. I didn't really want to lay it down somewhere on a surface because I thought, Oh, then it gets dirty[JZ7]. But it was like the stickiness and the flatness. [JZ8]It makes it seem appropriate for putting it on a window. Yeah. Um, and. You know, also because I have these metal things, I thought, Oh, I can hang it. And so I had some magnets. So for that, that was my own invention of.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: I see you use.
00:18:12
Speaker 2: The magnets as well. Yeah. Okay.
00:18:14
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:18:15
Speaker 2: So it's the shape makes it kind of suited more suited for hanging than for lying down.
00:18:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the material.
00:18:24
Speaker 2: Also.
00:18:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:27
Speaker 2: Great. Um, I finished my questions and I'll stop recording for now.

[JZ1]Unclear care instructions on colour change and wellbeing caused misjudgement
[JZ2]Care needs to be anticipated before taking the responsibility
[JZ3]The flatness of the artefact makes it less lifelike 
[JZ4]People didnŐt really understand what the black part is for - instructions should be even more clear
[JZ5]The artefact is nice to see but a bit too sandy to touch over time
[JZ6]The form of the artefact is too novel to make sense and comprehend
[JZ7]As designer we didnŐt expect the dirtiness of silicone to be such influential in how people interact with it
[JZ8]The stickiness helps to attach it to vertical surface


Esme 3.m4a



This speech-to-text was created by www.Amberscript.com





