00:00:00
Speaker 1: And now chit chat. But I'm just so fascinated. Let's go. Let's go. Very good. I really like. Whoa. Yeah. It's like a and it's getting more because first it was like this a little bit and now it's really like the whole. Yeah, the whole area. So you think.
00:00:17
Speaker 2: You think it's the Oxygen? I don't produce.
00:00:19
Speaker 1: But for me it was super interesting because I felt like, wow, is it because if it is the Oxygen, then it's actually pretty impressive. [JZ1]Yeah, because that would be a lot. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure because I know if I if I look at my studio and I see the bottles, sometimes all of a sudden there's a lot of a lot of bubbles on top and sometimes months, nothing[JZ2][JZ3]. So it just depends on we can go anywhere. Yeah. And depends on everything.
00:00:54
Speaker 2: When you saw the bubbles, did you shake them or they were just sitting there like usual.
00:00:58
Speaker 1: No they. Because in my, in my studio I can't shake. So they, they are just standing there and every time I come I shake them. And so no, they would they would be the bubbles would be there when I would come in. So they have been standing there overnight or maybe sometimes a few days if I haven't been there. And then I would see these bubbles. And then when you shake, the bubbles are gone. Of course. Yeah, but. But this is so much so. I felt like I must be also other. It must be a combination of things. Like maybe also because it's warm, but it's not there, absolutely not in the sun. And they're also there[JZ4]. I mean, the color is a little bit changing and I don't know if you do. Hi. It is a bit more green right than than it was[JZ5].
00:01:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say so too.
00:01:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought so too.
00:01:50
Speaker 2: Here. And you?
00:01:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I have like, I now see, like this and this.
00:01:58
Speaker 2: Yeah. But you also see.
00:02:00
Speaker 1: A little bit purplish. So. So maybe we're in this phase then or what.[JZ6][JZ7]
00:02:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not very sure because, um. Because for me.
00:02:10
Speaker 1: Because we can see it better. Yeah. This is the funny thing. Like this is the. Yeah.
00:02:14
Speaker 2: So for me, the green is somewhere definitely here. Yeah. Yeah. And then the purple is. Here, but then this part is here. But again, this one is just an approximate.
00:02:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:02:30
Speaker 2: Yeah. Because you also see yellow here.
00:02:33
Speaker 1: So have you seen because this is, this is really have you seen with other samples like the one that you, that you were living with. Yeah. Then it would become really purplish.
00:02:45
Speaker 2: You're curious right?
00:02:46
Speaker 1: I should, I noticed already because I wrote you the email and you were like, la la la la la. And I was like, Oh, yeah, shit. I should ask her. I shouldn't ask. I know. I'm just ready to study. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm so sorry.
00:02:58
Speaker 2: I think. I think it's already doing quite well. But it can be better, Right?
00:03:06
Speaker 1: Right, right. I also thought because I have it there in the corner, because that is the only spot in the house that will never get sunlight.[JZ8]
00:03:13
Speaker 2: Oh, is that on.
00:03:14
Speaker 1: The on the. Yeah. With the. You can see it. I just.
00:03:20
Speaker 2: Yeah. Go I'm going to take a photo as well. Yeah.
00:03:24
Speaker 1: And I just place this underneath today because I, I normally don't have it so it's with the other ones which are also getting greener I think. Yeah. And they were really like the, the not so good part. Wait I will open this. Because I seen. So I what I do now, I place them like I think I like this because then I can. And I just had them, like, really covered like this. I felt like, okay, so this way they are, they are very, um, protected from too much heat.[JZ9]
00:04:04
Speaker 2: I see. So you always kept it here, as I understood.
00:04:08
Speaker 1: Well, I this I've been. I just placed this back because I felt like, okay, they moved here, but they've been moving around here. I see.
00:04:17
Speaker 2: Why do you why do you do like, like in this line?
00:04:21
Speaker 1: Well, because I just sometimes I felt like because we had, like, one very cloudy day, and then I felt like, oh, this is good. Now the the house is getting darker, so I can actually so I move this away and I place them here. I really lay it flat. I see. So I was really doing like this just on the full, just to have the full length. Yeah. Because then the sun because you I was of course totally triggered by how you, how you implemented the sort of the and I do think it's very good to use it also. But I I'm just I haven't been I haven't been touching it too much because I got a little bit scared of this. I felt like I see vulnerable to be careful and so I so it has been laying like that and then it also um it this didn't happen because it was constantly like this. This happened also when it was laying flat. So, so that's, that's for sure. Yeah. But I think they still get a little bit too much light here. So I felt like I just placed them all the way in the, in the corner.[JZ10]
00:05:31
Speaker 2: To where you think they still get too much light here or so. Yeah.
00:05:36
Speaker 1: I thought so.
00:05:37
Speaker 2: You think they like the corner best?
00:05:40
Speaker 1: Um, well, the corner is the darkest. And then I thought about, like, maybe I should put something here to make it, um. To make this dark. Like, to. To place something black here because everything is reflecting at the moment. Yeah. So that could also be an option, but it would be good for me. This is, it's so new because I, it's just a very super thin layer. So they're always exposed. Yeah. Like in the bottle. Yeah, they are. Yeah. You know, they're everywhere. So I have no idea. I mean we, we don't see them move but of course they are. Yeah.[JZ11]
00:06:20
Speaker 2: You told me they can hide behind each other.
00:06:22
Speaker 1: I thought so. I think, I think like if, if they sort of, they come to the front and they can go down and and you also see like well now I shake but then at the then they become they get here and, and so it's like um I'm not sure it's super interesting the way it's built up because it's such a thin layer. So I just think like, whoa, they're always, they're always active or they're always, um, but this is also completely, um, my human mind doing that because a Cyanobacteria cell, maybe they also think here, like maybe it's a super thick layer for them, you know, maybe, yeah, maybe for them, it's like, what are you talking about? You know, it's like 500m down. I can still go like, so.[JZ12][JZ13]
00:07:10
Speaker 2: And also it has front and back, right? Yes, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I also don't know, it's like a Yeah. Also new thing.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. But it's, it's um. Let's take it to the table again. We can.
00:07:23
Speaker 2: Sure you can.
00:07:24
Speaker 1: Look a bit more. You can also you can look through it. This is also the weirdest thing.[JZ14]
00:07:35
Speaker 2: Why is it weird to you?
00:07:40
Speaker 1: I just.
00:07:44
Speaker 2: At a certain point you think like, why can I look through them? But if I if I, if I if I have them under the microscope, you also can look through them.[JZ15] Or you see this really bright green little dots. Yeah. So it is actually very logical that you can look through them. But every every reactor, every bio reactor that I saw till now, you cannot look through it except if it's very, very, uh. Yeah, like. Yeah.
00:08:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean to me here is look through but here is still kind of blocked. Like I cannot see the tree directly from the green part. It is kind of light, permeable.
00:08:30
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. Yes. You don't see, right? Yeah. Yeah. So they are blocking.
00:08:38
Speaker 1: But in the beginning were they look through. They were in the beginning they were looked through I guess like you were able to look through.
00:08:47
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now I'm of course.
00:08:48
Speaker 1: Now I'm now shouting. That's why you should always take picture when you notice something.
00:08:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah.
00:08:59
Speaker 1: Right. But it's.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: But these are the these are the most interesting things because this is also like what I'm so surprised of. Like how you learn is of often it happens afterwards, like not on the moment when you're learning, but like later on you, you have this click or you, you make you, you have your realization that you think like, wow, maybe. [JZ16]And then it gets like a theory or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is, this is how we humans maybe learn, I don't know. So interesting. Yeah, it's weird. So, yeah, this is really like a it's very it for me, it looks now very fragile. [JZ17]So I am like, okay, I shouldn't move it too much or. But I am thinking I was thinking about like placing it somewhere else, but also what you wrote about the cats and stuff like, okay, so there are not so many options. [JZ18]Maybe I can place it on the on the bookshelf like, but then of course it's not so much there, it's really present. It's really with us, you know, like we both work in that room, so it's constantly there. And I really like to be in communication with it. If I just place it on top of the bookshelf.[JZ19]
00:10:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's nice that you think about different places and you kind of give yourself like, Oh, is it really better? So it helps you to think with.
00:10:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also so interesting because, um, how I would call it like the presence of the, of the objects like that. You are actually thinking about it like a living Artefact like, so, so I would not. Um. I would not think, you know, like the flowers. You also don't put it on top of the bookshelf or something, you know, or plant or plant. Sometimes people do. But I'm like, you. You sort of you want to be connected to them. So I also have that with the Artefact you.[JZ20]
00:10:54
Speaker 1: Want it to in the nearby environment of yourself? Yeah. Is it also because it produces Oxygen or is it quite irrelevant?
00:11:03
Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that one. I'm not sure. But I'm I would say I'm the wrong person to ask. I think other people might have because I remember that my my relationship with Cyanobacteria changed a lot because in the beginning I also. And I know it's not true. I know they're not toxic. But because of all the stories you get on the Internet, you do have this. You do have this idea like, hmm, maybe I should maybe I should open the window. If I enter my studio with all these bottles. You don't have to actually, you know, it's the other way around. You should be super happy with that. They're there. But. But this is this is something that. That fascinates me. And I'm thinking about it a lot. Like, so how does this how does this common ground like, how does this, this, this, this stigma, you could call it a stigma that people placed on top of it, Like, how does it influence our relationship? So I know, you know, like this is why this bubble is so fascinating for me because I'm really thinking like, whoa, you know, I know materials can do this. I know. Like, it could be exactly the same if there were no but maybe, maybe the Siennas are producing Oxygen and this is for me also. And I don't know, maybe you're also very, very curious about that. Like I also I really need I want to find out how much does a bottle of Cyanobacteria produce? Like what is can I get data out of there to visualize it? Like, how do I how do you do that? Like, how do you measure the amount of Oxygen Cyanobacteria make? And till now I didn't really I didn't really find others than these bubbles, you know, this is a clear. Yeah, it's like I see it, you know, there's something happening and now I see this and I'm also like, wow. [JZ21]Yeah. Which could be, you know, this is, this is, of course, super challenging because how thin can you go? And could you actually, you know, imagine that it would be like bubble gum, Like, that would be so super funny. And yeah, but then how do you how does the CO2 then come in to stay healthy and to keep it nurturing? Like there are so many. Yeah, it's super interesting. I'm fascinated by the.[JZ22]
00:13:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, great. Yeah. So actually we can have a lot of conversation about this because I'm also very intrigued. But as an interviewer I cannot. So I.
00:13:37
Speaker 2: Talk and I.
00:13:38
Speaker 1: Know you cannot get it. I know.
00:13:40
Speaker 2: But we can do it after.
00:13:42
Speaker 1: These weeks. Let's do it. Um, so I'm going to start with like a bit of a semi-structured interview to you all. All of them you already mentioned. So. Okay, we just. Yeah, I can.
00:13:53
Speaker 2: Just go again.
00:13:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the first question is, how is it like to live with no name yet so far?
00:14:02
Speaker 2: Um, so as I said, I feel its presence and I also I'm very aware and I try to be, I feel responsible. So I like, I like this kind of responsibility. [JZ23]You also have it towards the cats, you know, like I'm like, okay, I'm away. So I, I'm only away when I know that then my partner is there because, you know, otherwise the cats would be alone. And that is like, why should, why, why do you take a pet if you're not there? You know, like this is so I also that's why I also said to you, like I felt a little bit like, oh, but I'm also away few days. You were like, No, that's okay. But but I felt like, Oh, is that okay? Like, how can you um, I also remember from my own studio, like I would in the whole summer holidays, I drove back from the Ardennes, um, every week to look if they are okay. Yeah.
00:15:02
Speaker 1: Even if you find someone to, to kind of look after.
00:15:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they don't know this. They don't have the same.
00:15:08
Speaker 1: I see.
00:15:09
Speaker 2: They don't know. There's no knowledge. You can, you can, you can have people looking after your cats. I mean this is something. But people looking after your Cyanobacteria. No.
00:15:18
Speaker 1: Not even Kaia.
00:15:20
Speaker 2: No, no. But she was also in the Ardennes. But.
00:15:23
Speaker 1: No, but. But.
00:15:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Here. Yes, but I also, I, I do feel this kind of, um. Well, I can. There was, there's this thing happened because, um. I had a setup in the lab with my Cyanobacteria, and, um, it was taken to another place in the lab because people thought like, Ah, this is rearranging the lab and it was placed somewhere else and I wasn't there on that day because I was, I was doing other things and it took me a month or something to get there again. And then I saw the new spot and I was like, Oh my God, this is not good. Because it was, it was surrounded by white areas. It was reflecting constantly. So then I thought like, okay, you know, like there's this things that people that work with Cyanobacteria sort of think are so logical that other people don't see. And I am a photographer, so I, I am an analog photographer. So I measure with my eyes. I know like, I know the amount of light in that corner. [JZ24]I know what the camera would do. So I know I can measure light, you know, and I just see it and I'm like, Oh my God, that's at least four stops more. You know, that's impossible. We can't do that. So. So there's a lot of that's why I'm also scanning like, okay, how can I. I know I, I think I know what they want. [JZ25][JZ26]Yeah. But of course this is also very arrogant to say, but. Yeah. That's why I'm also a little bit disappointed that they're not like, go purple, but it's okay.[JZ27]
00:17:08
Speaker 1: Let's see if we can can be even better next week.
00:17:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, it should be better.
00:17:14
Speaker 1: Uh, is there anything specific you want to share with me?
00:17:19
Speaker 2: That would be the story with the bubble. With the. That would be the. That would be my most, um. Like, what is this? Because I'm fascinated by it. And also about the possibilities. Like you sort of start like thinking like, whoa, But if that's possible and why didn't I think of it took place just a very thin, you know, like you can just make your erlenmeyer a place a very thin and you could see if it, you know, like it's so simple. So this is beautiful. It really it really triggers a lot of ideas also. Yeah.[JZ28]
00:17:57
Speaker 1: Great. Um, what did you notice in your cyano Artefact?
00:18:03
Speaker 2: What did I notice? Well, um, actually, I'm happy that I was away for I was away two times. One night in this week. So from. Monday and Tuesday, and from Thursday on Friday I was away. So I had a little bit longer periods that I didn't see it because if I'm in the house, I would check, I would be I would be like, um, like I'm not on social media, but it would be my social media, you know, it would be like, Oh, and then, oh, nothing changed. Of course not. You can't perceive it. But if you're away for two days, then you do see a little bit of change and you're still it's only in the first second because the minute you see it, you accept it and you are sort of you change your image in your head and you're like, Oh, am I? Am I sure that it changed or is this so it's you really have to be super, um, like, okay, now I'm going to go there. This is the first time I'm going to see it. And the first reaction I have is that's it. And I did have every time I felt like, yes, a little bit greener. Yes, a little bit more. And then I felt like, okay, so accept it. This is it. It is a little bit greener. So you and I. Yeah.[JZ29]
00:19:15
Speaker 1: Kind of prepare yourself and your acceptance system and.[JZ30]
00:19:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, because otherwise I know how it works. You know, if you start, if I really would go there and think like, is it greener than last time? And then you.
00:19:27
Speaker 1: Know, you start to lose the. Yeah. The perception. Yeah.
00:19:30
Speaker 2: Or your also your memory like also like the you have something in your head and of course this is memory is always well not always but most of the times the memory is, is is subjective or it's like but still. Yeah. So this is something I try to do and then yeah. To see like. To see if it's if it's if it's. So I focus also on this side. I notice I because I because this is. This is like, uh. Yeah, it's interesting because when you gave me your Artefact, I felt like, Oh, that's going to be so fascinating because I really love the the combination and like how how things can influence each other. But then when it didn't really happen, I felt like a bad parent and I felt like, okay, so I will focus on the green because I know this part.[JZ31]
00:20:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. So but I mean also depends on the time when you go to notice it. If it's in the morning, apparently it gets less. It has been receiving less light. Yes. There was darkness. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. This is true. Yeah.
00:20:44
Speaker 1: Great. Um, can you give me an example of what you notice? But I think you sort of.
00:20:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, there would be. Then also the this, this. But that's more. But then for the siennas I would say like, um. And this is also with the pictures. You should actually put the pictures next to each other to sort of know again. But but my like I also do that in my own research. Like I really I'm really training or trying to. Just go with what I see because I think this is getting a little bit more that it's going a little bit down. I didn't check the pictures, so.
00:21:30
Speaker 1: And was there a moment, for instance, when you came home or when you just saw it, was there a moment that you you thought, oh, it's really changing?
00:21:42
Speaker 2: Well, this is this is these are these are these moments that I prepare myself like, okay, I'm now going to see it for the first time again after 36 hours after like like a longer period. And then and then you see the change. I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Turn it once.
00:22:02
Speaker 1: More. And why do you think it changed like this? Um.
00:22:10
Speaker 2: Of course I'm cheating a little bit because I have my own bottle next to it. And they're also. I mean, they were not happy at all when they were in the lab. And now they. That's why they're getting better. So I this is a little bit cheating.[JZ32]
00:22:24
Speaker 1: Because you have a.
00:22:25
Speaker 2: Reference. I have a reference. I see that they are okay at this spot. Yeah. So, um, so there I might take it to my studio and then, um. Wait a minute. What was the question exactly? Again, why.
00:22:41
Speaker 1: Do you think it changed like this?
00:22:47
Speaker 2: I think the cells are dividing. I think the cells are becoming more so. If I'm really honest, I think the material is causing a lot of this. But the imagination is started, so I don't care. Um, the cells are dividing and getting more. They're getting. They're getting more. You know, there's more density there.[JZ33] There's. Yeah. Like you said, you can't look through it. Um. And the only thing for me that's sort of weird is why the color is not because I do see a little bit faintly purplish here, but not not that. Not those strong kind of colors yet. Maybe it can still come. I hope so. Um, maybe you could.[JZ34][JZ35]
00:23:43
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm suggesting, but, um. Yeah, Yeah. Just try by yourself. Maybe that's not the best part, you know?
00:23:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's. I would. I would then presume they, um, they needed a little bit more, um, constant. Um, yeah, I could take them to my studio and then. Then of course I can, I can really see what works, but I don't like that. So I want to do it in this house. And, um, but I'm a little bit traumatized with, um, with cultures really. Like, too much light is, is, is way more dangerous than, than too less light.[JZ36] So. So there's always this.
00:24:35
Speaker 1: I see.
00:24:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's, there's like, um, I don't have this. In the beginning I did in the beginning I would put them on, on the, on the window uh, there I would put them there and within two weeks they were totally white.
00:24:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
00:24:51
Speaker 2: But I didn't know. So it'd be like, Oh, they're so beautiful. And in the sun they look so beautiful. And the sun was like, Yes, they do, but they don't like it. So I would, I would I was thinking about maybe placing something another layer on top of it or something to, to cover it a little bit more or like I said, to, to not have all the things, to not have everything white because of course that's also why I place this white envelope underneath. Yeah. Then we, then I can see it and we are well in the west we are very focused on our eyes, so we're super visual. We're not so much, you know, like smelling it or I don't. Yeah. You know, or. Well, the touch is, the touch is very well represented with this. That's nice. So there's a lot of I might, I might cover it a bit more. I was actually also just trying because at first I had it covered like this and then to the side and then I thought like, oh, that's not good because then the light just comes in from here. So I also wanted to cover it like this, like to sort of make it possible to close these. So you really have like a, um, that you have like, yeah, I don't know how you can do that.[JZ37]
00:26:12
Speaker 1: Can you do this? Yeah. Very interesting.
00:26:15
Speaker 2: Hands are so terrible.
00:26:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's okay.
00:26:21
Speaker 2: So that's what I that's what I was thinking about. Like, I can close it here so they only have the. Yeah.
00:26:28
Speaker 1: The, the really like minimum light inputs.
00:26:31
Speaker 2: Well minimum is I mean minimum viable.
00:26:34
Speaker 1: I mean.
00:26:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. But yeah, like I said this is a super light house so I don't, I don't think they get like.[JZ38]
00:26:43
Speaker 1: You think they even need less light than that sports.
00:26:47
Speaker 2: For me I would say. I would say yes, because I once I let them lay like this and I came in and I saw like because in the in the morning, the whole the whole room was full of sun, but not in that spot. But there's a lot of sun in the room. And I was just really like, oh shit. Like, I really thought like, no, this is not good. [JZ39]This is too much like. But yeah, again, it's like I said, like I don't understand them so well because they're so thin layer. Yeah, I think they're super fragile, but maybe they're not. Maybe they're really tough. Just also, I have no idea. Yeah, I will try. Maybe I should take a little bit more risk or like a little bit more variation in this week. [JZ40][JZ41]That could. I could do that. Yeah. Okay. And also I know that they don't respond on the spot. They mostly respond the next day. So that's also like a little bit of a difficult one. But we'll see[JZ42][JZ43]. Yeah.
00:27:57
Speaker 1: Okay, great. We'll talk about how did it change and why do you think it changed in that manner? And then now about your feelings, how did you feel about their change?
00:28:12
Speaker 2: Um. Well, like I said, I hope that they would feel more comfortable here because, like, as I as I if you read it, it really says like worst. That's a big word, medium best. But here it really says worst. So. That's a that's a tough one because, I mean, if I look at the top layer, I see that there. I like this color. This is good. But this is still lots of. I don't know. So so. And I also am confused about this, this, this part because I really don't understand it. [JZ44]Like so, so I guess that the cells have to go there to make it purple because otherwise why would the color change become and why would it change if they if they are happy, they can't send information to that part of the of the Artefact and say like, could you please turn purple because I am quite okay here. So there must be like, like going there. So maybe once now I say it, I can also hang it and it would go quicker. Mm. But that's maybe also cheating. Yeah, maybe I can hang it a little bit.[JZ45]
00:29:39
Speaker 1: Well, you can try.
00:29:40
Speaker 2: Yeah. Because I do think they. They are. They are definitely. Um. How do you. How do you, um. Um. They? Well, they work with gravity, but they are on their own. And, um, well, they're part of our whole system. So they also act. They also respond to gravity. Let's call it something like that.
00:30:12
Speaker 1: How do they respond to gravity? And your understanding?
00:30:16
Speaker 2: In my understanding, they they really have a they really have the same.
00:30:20
Speaker 1: So they go the same direction.
00:30:21
Speaker 2: Um, well, they go down. Yeah. Well, if I, if they, especially if they start producing biomass or something you see that it lands on the bottom of the flask. So yeah. And also if you, if you, you know, if you, if you keep your, um, the flask, you remember the first flask that you also had in the lab in the boss if you would, if you would just let, let them stay there. Yeah.
00:30:43
Speaker 1: I didn't use the shaking.
00:30:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But you saw like they sort of you see, you see actually the other way around, you would see. You would see like this.
00:30:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:30:52
Speaker 2: So this is sort of funny. Yeah. I'm a little bit worried about it, I must say. The bubble. [JZ46]Yeah. Yeah. I hope nothing will happen. Let's see. Yeah, let's see. Great.
00:31:10
Speaker 1: Next question is, how much time do you find yourself setting aside in looking after your Cyanobacteria?
00:31:18
Speaker 2: No idea.
00:31:22
Speaker 1: Uh, the most of the. Yes, I know. I finished, um, most of the time is taking pictures or just like because I take pictures with my with the mobile I have for my work because that's a better, better camera. And then I send it to my computer and then I send it. So it's a little bit like so, but but really taking care of them. It's just throughout the day. A minute here, a minute there like five minutes, just looking at them, like spending time or maybe talking to Kaia about them. I have no idea if you can really. That's a very interesting question because it's, let's say, half an hour a day. But then it sounds very weird because you think like, whoa, only half an hour a day. [JZ47]That's not so much.
00:32:16
Speaker 2: Is it more like moments by moments?
00:32:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:32:19
Speaker 2: It's not like, oh, this period of time I.
00:32:22
Speaker 1: Oh, I forgot it. I have to. No, it's not that. No, it's more like it's there. And, um. Um. Yeah, I. I noticed that I sort of hold back to take another picture because I think it's exactly the same. [JZ48]I can take another picture, but it's, you know, like so I. So I'm rather, um. Yeah. Yeah, it's not really like. Like a fixed thing. Like, if I get up, I first take care of them. Not like that. Okay, But I'm not like that anyway.[JZ49] Yeah, like.
00:32:57
Speaker 2: That's very interesting. And did it change your daily routine anyway?
00:33:02
Speaker 1: No, no, no, not really. No.
00:33:06
Speaker 2: Because you. You are anyway. Kind of. Yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker 1: I don't have a daily routine. Also, this is like maybe, you know, because this is something I if, if you think about having a dog, then, of course, you know, you sort of, you make your rhythm, you have to, you go out and then because that's why I asked if you could a friend of ours just returned and he was here for a week from Germany and he had a dog. So. So you just notice, like, how strict your schedule of the day is. Um, well, my schedule, of course, they want I give them food regularly, so they get. They get food, you know, like, like when they. So we, we know when we feed them, but it's not like I connect. I don't till now. But now that you mention it, I think like yeah that could be interesting to really go for like okay I will look at them 5:00 in the afternoon, something like that, you know like to, to like um, I never really did that because I assume. That they don't change that that fast like that. [JZ50]It's more like a gradual process instead of really breathing like at night to go like and then in the morning when you would look, then it would be pale and then in the afternoon they would. It's not like that. It's not it's not like, you know, you can see it in in the flowers. I mean, this one was amazing. It changed colour. And it it was, you know, like it was, was one of those like open. And then in the evening you see it close again. And so that is and now it's, it's almost yeah, it was, it was reddish pink when we got it. So now it's so these kind of changes that you can really be like, hey I see that you get all this. Oh wow. Now you're really. No, no.
00:35:03
Speaker 2: So for, for this and you didn't really put your time like regularly. No. On this and on that but more.
00:35:11
Speaker 1: Like I don't feel obligated to do.
00:35:13
Speaker 2: So. Yeah I.
00:35:14
Speaker 1: See. No. Which is also. Yeah. I also find it a kind of nice responsibility because I don't feel like, oh my God, I have to be constantly or oh, I have to go home because you know, something like that. [JZ51]No, no, no, no.
00:35:29
Speaker 2: It's more naturally kind of incorporated. Yeah.
00:35:32
Speaker 1: And it's. It's. It's a little bit maybe too big a word, but it has some sort of a meditative, um. Part, you know, like you can sort of take a bath or something and see like, okay, this is like taking a bath, sort of.[JZ52]
00:35:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not so much that you, like, really meditate. Yeah, I.
00:35:54
Speaker 1: Understand. No, no, it's not. It's not. It's not like. Oh, wow. I looked at this and I feel completely good again. Like, that would be amazing. Yeah.
00:36:06
Speaker 2: Um, okay. Next part of the interview would be about how did you take care of them? But you already mentioned you basically sort of judged that sport is, is quite good. So you tried it from the beginning and you sort of slide it along that light spectrum? Yeah.
00:36:26
Speaker 1: I at a certain point I read like because you write it here, I think. Play with me with a exclamation mark, like, And I felt like, oh my gosh, I, I didn't do that so much. I sort of walked around with it. I took a picture there like, like that. I hold it, but I felt like I'm kind of it's kind of vulnerable. [JZ53]I'm not sure if I want to play with it, but you were immediately putting your finger in the bubble. So I felt like, okay, you trust it. So yeah, but I yeah, I. I don't consider it like something that you can really be too rough with or just be carrying around as if it's. Yeah, like how you see like some people sort of with the black and white. I can do that. I pick it up, pick her up and say come we look out the window or something. I would know that's a little bit.
00:37:22
Speaker 2: Why is that. Why do you think.
00:37:24
Speaker 1: Yeah. You feel.
00:37:25
Speaker 2: Like that.
00:37:26
Speaker 1: Well, I think also because of this vulnerability of how it now looks. Um. Could have been different if it was. More solid, like like this side. I have no problem at all with touching and with bending. And you're just, you know, that this is like, um, um. Silicone or what's it called? Um, silicone rubber. Yeah. Silicone rubber. Yeah, exactly. So this is okay. But there is it because.
00:37:57
Speaker 2: Of the thickness?
00:37:58
Speaker 1: It's because of the thickness and because of the living cells inside. [JZ54]Yeah.
00:38:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:38:03
Speaker 1: And the living cells, of course. I mean, if you do, they look.
00:38:10
Speaker 2: Quite fragile.
00:38:10
Speaker 1: To you. Yeah, I know they're fragile. Well, they're not, because you can, like, shake them, you know, It's not like they're fragile. Fragile. But. But to really, I would never touch them. Or if I, you know, like, like here, I could do this. I wouldn't do that there.
00:38:26
Speaker 2: But also is it because you also don't don't really see the point of doing this.
00:38:32
Speaker 1: It could be nice. It could be nice to sort of try if you could, you know, if if my theory with the like they have to go there. If it if it's correct, then maybe I can massage them. [JZ55]I see. To the yellow part. Yes, it could be nice too, but I'm not sure if they would like it. Ideas again? Yeah. Give them a massage.
00:38:56
Speaker 2: I see. I feel that you. You have this kind of, um. Um. Avoid avoiding risk kind of mindset.
00:39:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe.
00:39:06
Speaker 2: Because maybe.
00:39:07
Speaker 1: You are the only.
00:39:07
Speaker 2: One. No. Cause you. Maybe you already know Cyanobacteria for a while.
00:39:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, that could also be true. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, that definitely can be true. That maybe if. If, um. Because. Well, you know what happens if you if you wash salad or something under the under the under the tap water or something and you're washing it and you and if you if you then really rub it, it also it you damage it or something. So you and I feel that same. I mean of course yeah. They are connected for me to green plants and everything. Of course they are so. There's also something. I just don't want to treat them too rough.[JZ56]
00:39:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this touches upon another another question that's like because you already kind of took care of the Cyanobacteria in the bottle, right? And then you have also this kind of format. Yeah. How is that different? Does it does taking care of this remind you of.
00:40:13
Speaker 1: Well, of course, of course it yeah, it does. But it also reminds me of agar plates, you know, like also the color. And so. And I know how, how, how quickly they can, you know, if you. I just have a few plates in the lab now and it goes pretty fast. I think it was about the same time, like one week and you see them already growing. So I have no idea if this is maybe it's also some sort of a agar, um, uh, consistent. So, um, then it would also be nice because then it's also like food base for them. Um, so I'm, I just have too much logic thing in my head, that's for sure. But, um. I. I also feel a little bit, which is completely ridiculous, that I think like, oh, they're not so free to float around in, you know, like. So yeah, but the bottle is also a container, you know, it's just completely ridiculous.[JZ57][JZ58]
00:41:20
Speaker 2: But maybe on a micro level, you, on a, you, you, you made that the cells, they cannot as you said they cannot.
00:41:28
Speaker 1: But it's so you're so, um. Um, you're so putting them into a human position or something. It's just completely rubbish. I know. It's, it's, it's not like that. So it's. But somehow I do feel a kind of, um, you know, I would even go into the terms of love or something for them because there's definitely very lots of gratitude and lots of, you know, like they're, they're so amazing and so interesting and. Um, and I'm also like constantly thinking like, okay, you know, like one cell or like this whole collective of cells and what is happening there, you know, like, and probably the amount of, I don't know, maybe this is. Not not even maybe five millilitres, ten millilitres? I have no idea. But these are it can be a billion of cells. So. So there's so many. Um, it's just, it's. It's so fascinating. Um. To see that they can actually live in these kind of circumstances. It also opens up a lot of because they are probably less fragile as I make them, because they know they know how to survive on this planet. Right? I mean, they've been here for 3 billion years or something, so why should I care that much? And there's like this super interesting, um, when it, when it's presented in a. In a. Are you okay? Yep.[JZ59]
00:43:06
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:43:08
Speaker 1: Um. Yeah, like. Like if you have it with you, it can also be like in a small container or something, but you immediately feel attached to it[JZ60]. What I do, and this is, I think, a super interesting aspect of how humans and it has to do with, I don't know, empathy or like, um, megalomania. How do you say like our as if, as if we're so important, you know, like they don't care that we're here. Yeah. So that's, that's the whole. They also probably don't care that they're in their. It's just me projecting all these faults on them. And, and and I. I do like thinking about that.
00:43:57
Speaker 2: Yeah. You also make me think a lot. Yeah. All right.
00:44:05
Speaker 1: Lots of bubbles in there.
00:44:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, a lot of questions are already covered. I mean, I like it that it goes kind of organically. Yeah, super. Um, so there's one specific question about how did how did Cyanobacteria respond to what you did to them? But you kind of mentioned that it doesn't respond like suddenly, but no, it also goes with time. Yeah. Is there anything else that you would like to mention about their responses?
00:44:47
Speaker 1: Well. Maybe not about their responses, but also and I think this is also beautiful, their lack of response, like they're sort of. Still, he sounds like a stoic or like. Like, um. Yeah, like. You become very humble because you think like. It's not like I the only thing that I can do is ruin it. That's the that's the that's what really, if I put it in the sun, I know I will. I will. I will lose them. I see. So there's, um. And this is this taking care.[JZ61] Like there's the. So I don't feel so much like as if I am responsible for them flourishing, but I do feel responsibility for them not flourishing. Yeah so that's more the. Yeah it's very interesting. Yeah. Oh I didn't look so much at it flourished I guess. Yeah. Oh sour.
00:45:48
Speaker 2: No no it's just like oh I don't know how you call it in, uh, in east, east, east. But I love it. It's. Yeah, but now the sign comes here, so I have to change.
00:45:58
Speaker 1: Another living thing. Yeah.
00:46:00
Speaker 2: It's so visible. So it still.
00:46:02
Speaker 1: Takes a while before it comes that that room is maybe you can put it on the on the. No, it's too cold. Oh, okay. All right. Just leave it. It's the same thing. Yeah, just leave it.
00:46:13
Speaker 2: Okay. Here are some final questions. Do you feel motivated to look after them and why? Of course.
00:46:21
Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious, because this is very, um. Very well. It's not short for some people. For me, it's very short. Two weeks. Very short. So I'm curious what would happen if I would have it a year, if I still would have the same, um, interest or um, uh, of course you would forget about it maybe a week or something[JZ62]. But that's no problem. I mean.
00:46:49
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want, we can do it together. I mean, these. I made seven artifacts, right? Eight artifacts. Okay. Maybe after the study, I give you four I keep for myself and see what happens in a year.
00:47:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, but this is the whole interesting thing. Like. Like I, um. These are. Yeah, for me, this is two weeks time. Schedule is very, very short. Yeah, I think so. I think so. Is it because.
00:47:13
Speaker 2: You cannot see more.
00:47:15
Speaker 1: Or. No, because I don't think. Because you it's sort of in a relationship, you know, the first love or something. You you sort of of course you're totally fascinated by it. And then but but how does it how does it continue? Like, how does it and how would it be if it would be just like, you know, I also have like pieces of art hanging on the wall. So what if I would just have it there and it's just hanging there? Would it be the same? Would I have the same? Um, yeah. I also love my that's why that's why I put it on the wall because I love looking at it. So it has the same kind of quality. So I don't consider it so much like a, um. Like something. Like a refreshment tool. I see. I more see it like a very aesthetic and very. Like a nice presence to also like living. Living art instead of living Artefact. Like I would go in that direction. Yeah. Yeah.[JZ63]
00:48:18
Speaker 2: So actually the for instance, the producing Oxygen is not so important to you that.
00:48:24
Speaker 1: When you say, I mean I loved it. I loved it. That part of the of course it is super important only.
00:48:33
Speaker 2: Um.
00:48:36
Speaker 1: I know that that that's not happening from from this amount of cells. So this is like, it's the same like. Yeah, I have, I don't have so many plans I now notice. But you know, you put a plant in your room and, and some people think then that their room will be. Yeah, but it's not like that. I see.[JZ64][JZ65]
00:48:56
Speaker 2: And how much do you think you, you, you feel the, uh, really the amount that's, that's effective.
00:49:04
Speaker 1: Well, next week we have an appointment in my studio.
00:49:08
Speaker 2: I'll see you.
00:49:09
Speaker 1: And there you can see they're.
00:49:11
Speaker 2: A bit dry, but maybe. Thank you. Thank you.
00:49:15
Speaker 1: Becker.
00:49:17
Speaker 2: They're really dry. You need water with it?
00:49:19
Speaker 1: Oh, really? No.
00:49:21
Speaker 2: I have water. Hmm. No.
00:49:31
Speaker 1: Danny. Mm mm mm mm mm mm.
00:49:37
Speaker 2: So. Oh, no sugar. Mm mm. So you don't use sugar?
00:49:45
Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah.
00:49:49
Speaker 2: So? I don't know. I think we need a lot of, um, about next week. I just heard, like, on Friday, I, I should stay home. Would it be possible for you to meet on Saturday? Is that okay?
00:50:06
Speaker 1: Let me check. Yeah.
00:50:14
Speaker 2: So that's the 3rd of June. Yeah, Saturday is fine for me.
00:50:21
Speaker 1: Because then we can still then we can still meet in my studio because I think it's really nice.
00:50:26
Speaker 2: To.
00:50:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. Then we do it on Saturday.
00:50:35
Speaker 2: The same time. 1030. Yeah.
00:50:38
Speaker 1: That's okay for you?
00:50:39
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, of course I changed it. And I have an extra day. Extra day?
00:50:52
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
00:50:54
Speaker 2: Bonus.
00:50:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. Super cool. Okay. Um. Yeah.
00:51:02
Speaker 2: What else?
00:51:06
Speaker 1: So what do you think would motivate you more? Even more in looking after them?
00:51:19
Speaker 2: Well. This is the whole thing. I think it's it's a really good question because you would normally you would go into well, it would be nice if it would respond faster or something, but it's not because it's teaching me so much about slowness and about like breathing and about like, you know, like like these other values that we sort of forget of that we are so we're just so hectic and we're so used to so actually, I'm very I'm very grateful that they don't change that fast and stuff. [JZ66][JZ67]I think it's really good that they are, you know, So I would say I would not want them to respond faster. I see. I don't I don't think that's a. No, I don't think that's really. Mhm. What would motivate me? It's a difficult question. No, the motivation is on on the long term. It's like if they stay green. I know it's super frustrating when they when they disappear. This is so frustrating.[JZ68] Especially if you don't know why. Yeah. Yeah. So there's this. And of course, they although they are they are for themselves, they are very solid and they can they can live forever on paper, but in like in fantasy. Um. They are they are vulnerable. So you need instructions because you can do things wrong, because it's living. It's living material. So but I yeah, I'm I'm just I think it can be a little bit addictive. You know, if you if you sort of for instance, if one of the one of the people that you that you bring this Artefact to and they happen to be like in in a super good, super nice conditions light conditions in the house and and they are night people so every night they put on the the the light you know like the tables and they and they and they work the whole night and then they sleep during the day. So somehow the conditions are perfect. They have like 24 hours a day. They have like this and they go like and you see them and it does exactly what you do. I think it's very addictive. I think you think like, Whoa, that that was cool. Like, then you really get like this. Yeah.[JZ69]
00:54:00
Speaker 1: So you mean the, the if the color like really gives you the idea that.
00:54:05
Speaker 2: I think we are very Yeah, I think we are as human beings. We are very um, um, sensitive for these kind of processes, especially if you've already because this is what you do, you already give me a reference. You say like, well, we're right now we're here and this is your goal. Yeah, go for it.
00:54:27
Speaker 1: It's almost like a game.
00:54:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah.
00:54:30
Speaker 1: It has a little bit of a game.
00:54:31
Speaker 2: You reach a goal and you feel, Yeah, well, I accomplished this. And then I went. I did good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it more like a rewarding yourself? Yeah, I see. But is that all you want? Or are you. Imagine some people would want.
00:54:46
Speaker 1: It for.
00:54:46
Speaker 2: Me. I don't know. Yeah, you. I guess you want to do good because you know it's a living thing. So you want it to. I mean, I most people, of course, there are people that feel different, probably, but most people would probably want to support it because it's living.[JZ70][JZ71]
00:55:02
Speaker 1: Just because it's living.
00:55:04
Speaker 2: I guess So.
00:55:05
Speaker 1: Even. Even if you know, okay, just a small piece, it wouldn't give me much Oxygen or any other benefit.
00:55:13
Speaker 2: Ah, some people might be totally self absorbed.
00:55:19
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, just. Just talk about yourself.
00:55:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. Me? No, no, no, no, no. For me, yes. If it's living, then I take care of it. Yeah, of course.
00:55:28
Speaker 1: But just imagine because you also mentioned it can be just a nice piece of art. Yes, definitely. What if, let's say there is no no color change, just grain? Is it do you do you feel still the same.
00:55:40
Speaker 2: If it's only green or only gray?
00:55:42
Speaker 1: Only green.
00:55:43
Speaker 2: Green. Yeah.
00:55:44
Speaker 1: If that it turns turns green or greener over time because you said the temporality of it, you didn't want it to be even faster. No, but how about the. The change, the speed of change now, is it still too fast for you or is it just all right? Or it can be even slower.
00:56:06
Speaker 2: It could be slower. It could be slower because for me, that would be I can imagine people, um. Okay. If circumstances are good and somehow there's enough medium or there's enough food or the right circumstances are there and they can live for, let's say, like, I don't know, for a very long time. And they would just continue to go greener and greener and they would still stay healthy or something or whatever that may be in their circumstances, I can imagine. It's amazing to have some sort of a um, yeah, it can be either a bottle or like an object, but it can also be like a flat surface on the wall where you can see this progress happening. I think it's so it's like Mark, Mark Rothko, you know, like, like this this painter, the minimalist painter that really you sort of you sit in front and you look and you get sucked in. And so you I think they can have definitely that same effect.[JZ72]
00:57:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. With the slowest change just going right.
00:57:16
Speaker 2: Just green.
00:57:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see.
00:57:18
Speaker 2: Because it sort of um, I think it's also what people are longing for at the moment to have a, to understand what is going wrong out there. I think like these kind of processes to show different methods or like to internalize also, and especially with the green, with the, with the with the. I mean, it's such a it's such a content wise. It's such an interesting idea. You can go I don't know where you can go. It's a very philosophical work then. [JZ73]So, yeah, I would.
00:57:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting. I feel we can talk for a long time, but I also want to leave some space for. For you and also for myself to just absorb what you said today. And then because next week I'm going to follow up with similar set of questions, but maybe more go deeper into your reflections and experiences. All right. Yeah, nice. But thanks for today's. You too. Great talk.
00:58:27
Speaker 2: You too. Let me see if the bubble is still. Yeah, it's. It just started. And I don't know why.
00:58:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, to be honest, I think there is a mixture of things. Yeah.
00:58:47
Speaker 2: But have you seen it in yours already? Is it?
00:58:49
Speaker 1: Not yet. Not like this.
00:58:51
Speaker 2: No, no. Sorry. I just got.
00:58:56
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. No, no, no.
00:58:57
Speaker 2: It's okay.
00:58:58
Speaker 1: I know I.
00:58:59
Speaker 2: Should. I also. Yeah. I also don't know what to. What's okay to be shared? Because I'm also now living with one piece of this at home. And. Yeah, I'm observing its changes.
00:59:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So you have a reference. That's super cool. Yeah. Oh, that's nice. Oh, wow. Okay.
00:59:24
Speaker 2: Okay. I'm the one who knows everything but cannot tell everything. Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:30
Speaker 1: So this is really. Is this really stable? If I would. If I would hang it on. Is this a Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:36
Speaker 2: Okay, cool. Yeah, maybe I.
00:59:39
Speaker 1: Maybe I do that.
00:59:40
Speaker 2: Yeah. Very interesting.
00:59:43
Speaker 1: And of course, you make me a little bit insecure because now I think, like, maybe they should have more.
00:59:48
Speaker 2: Don't worry. So everything you do is fine. Yeah, it's just a bit different because I think everyone's home is also different. So really I do really see differences in every piece. But. But it's fine. There's nothing wrong with it.
01:00:05
Speaker 1: It was sort of interesting.
01:00:07
Speaker 2: Do you still have a name? No name.

[JZ1]Air bubble is associated with oxygen in a positive way
[JZ2]Associate with other liquid culture they have
[JZ3R2]To follow up - reflect more on the way of care
[JZ4]Air bubble is intriguing. It triggers reflection process of habitat condition such as temperature, sunlight.
[JZ5]More green is noticed
[JZ6]Not sure about the status - according to reference card
[JZ7R6]Reflect more on this: not knowing exactly - how does it influence your care taking?
[JZ8]By experience, not getting sunlight is the first thing to consider
[JZ9]Covering worked
[JZ10]Adjusting position and form according to light condition on the specific day - carefully handling
[JZ11]Thin layer would make a difference to the participant, compared to the bottle one
[JZ12]Relating to cyano - switching between cyano mind and human mind
[JZ13R12]To follow up and reflect deeper, how does the form of the living organism influences care? 
[JZ14]Looking through - another way of noticing
[JZ15]Knowing influences the way of relating and noticing É 
[JZ16]Learning happens afterwards.
[JZ17]The artefact looks fragile
[JZ18]Cats - another co-habitant to consider
[JZ19]Placing it nearby Òwith usÓ is important to the participant
[JZ20]The artefact feels like making people want to put it near by
[JZ21]The artefact helps to challenge stigma around Cyanobacteria
[JZ22]Air bubble is fascinating because it triggered so much imagination about what it is, how to measure it, É
[JZ23]Enjoying such responsibility
[JZ24]Measuring light with eyes - perks of a photographer :)
[JZ25]Knowing what cyanobacteria want
[JZ26R25]To follow up: do you really know?
[JZ27]Disappointed when cyanobacteria didnÕt show optimal status - cuz they thought they would
[JZ28]Bubble is fascinating and intriguing - especially in how it might help to understand the organism more - oxygen
[JZ29]Staying longer away helps to perceive the change
[JZ30]Participant found a way to develop a perception method - 
[JZ31]In the beginning the participant felt bad because the artefact didnÕt really change
[JZ32]A bottle of cyanobacteria as reference
[JZ33]Cells are becoming more - that causes the change
[JZ34]Trying to figure out why the purple isnÕt too much
[JZ35R34]To follow up: have you figured it out?
[JZ36]Traumatised by previous experience where too much light is dangerous
[JZ37]Visual - touch - humans are visual driven
[JZ38]The house is still too bright for them
[JZ39]UrgentÉ
[JZ40]Thin layer - fragile - risk avoidance?
[JZ41R40]To follow up: have you taken more risks?
[JZ42]Response on the second day makes if difficult to judge whether any action is effective
[JZ43R42]To follow up: is it good for the care then?
[JZ44]Confusion
[JZ45]Relating and thinking of a way to make the change bigger - make them happier
[JZ46]Also a bit worried about the bubble
[JZ47]Spending minute here and there with it
[JZ48]Slow temporality makes noticing difficult if without documentation
[JZ49]Not a fixed routine of care but flexible
[JZ50]Their temporality is also not immediate or requires fixed schedule of care
[JZ51]The type of responsibility towards the artefact is nice, not always acting like obligation or urgency, like towards an animal
[JZ52]The artefact is slightly meditative - which gives a moment of pause
[JZ53]The artefact looks quite fragile so it makes hesitant to really play with
[JZ54]The idea of living cells in it make it appear more fragile than it might be
[JZ55]Participant would massage the cells if they look more robust
[JZ56]DonÕt want to treat them too rough
[JZ57]Reminds of agar plate - and how cells cannot move around - which feels sad and ridiculous at the same time
[JZ58R57]To reflect more: this mode of relatingÉ
[JZ59]Also feeling grateful because of getting to know that the cells have live under such circumstanceÉand think that they are not fragile at all
[JZ60]Attachment
[JZ61]Not care & ruin them - what humans can do
[JZ62]Wanting to keep it for a year
[JZ63]Seeing it as a piece of art on wall - instead of a refreshing tool
[JZ64]Oxygen is important, it is just too few cells that can do that in this artefact
[JZ65R64]To follow up: doubtful about its function - what if itÕs a very big piece, how care would change in that way?
[JZ66]Feeling grateful about its slow temporality
[JZ67R66]To follow up: a conflict here, slow temporality - but not fast enough to care?
[JZ68]Staying green is motivative
[JZ69]Achieving a colour goal is motivative
[JZ70]Livingness itself is enough to motivate people
[JZ71R70]To reflect more: functional benefit
[JZ72]Temporality can be even slower
[JZ73]The artefact is very philosophical


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