00:00:01
Speaker 1: Much. Okay. How was it like to live with the Artefact so far?
00:00:09
Speaker 2: Uh, it was okay, but it's kind of scary because I saw this huge crack. Yeah. Um. Yeah, I wasn't sure if. Because it doesn't look like it's being crushed or squeezed because it's literally part of it disappeared, like, dried out. Oh, yeah. At the age. And it happened during this weekend.[JZ1]
00:00:35
Speaker 1: Because before weekend, you didn't see the crack.
00:00:38
Speaker 2: No, no, no.
00:00:40
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:00:41
Speaker 2: I did bend it. But, like. Like this. Yeah. If anything goes through when I'm not here. But I didn't like bend this part.
00:00:51
Speaker 1: I see. Then I think it should be because of the temperature. Because I think that weekend was super warm.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. And also there's like a huge bubble inside.[JZ2]
00:01:05
Speaker 1: The bubble is normal.
00:01:08
Speaker 2: Feels like it's drying out. Also on the edge of this thing, you can see there, like, yeah.
00:01:13
Speaker 1: It's shrinking.
00:01:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the humidity is not that bad here. It's like 50%.
00:01:21
Speaker 1: Because is it very hot inside the brewery?
00:01:25
Speaker 2: Not really. It's colder side of the brewery.
00:01:29
Speaker 1: Then I also don't know why.
00:01:33
Speaker 2: It really feels like it's dried out somehow. Like the whole thing.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: Did you notice any crack on the silicone?
00:01:42
Speaker 2: No, no, no. If there's a crack, then the bubble won't stay inside.
00:01:48
Speaker 1: Right, Right.
00:01:49
Speaker 2: The big bubble inside. And I can see like, for example, here, there's bubbles in the thing, so it might have another crack soon. Yeah. Should I submerge it in water?[JZ3]
00:02:06
Speaker 1: Maybe you can try.
00:02:11
Speaker 2: Because it's a it looks like it's drying.
00:02:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think maybe you can indeed. You can try to submerge it in water and see if it gets better.
00:02:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I might try that. But you do see some, like, extra green.
00:02:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:02:31
Speaker 2: Here and here.
00:02:34
Speaker 1: Do you think it's greener than a week ago?
00:02:38
Speaker 2: Only on the edge. The rest. I feel it didn't change at all.[JZ4]
00:02:43
Speaker 1: So it stayed the same green over time. Only.
00:02:46
Speaker 2: Only? Yeah. Maybe here there's more growth. Uh, but that's it. But I will take it home because there's more light at my place then. Okay. Because I can show you. We covered all the top windows.[JZ5]
00:03:03
Speaker 1: So there's only artificial light in here.
00:03:08
Speaker 2: Uh, well, now the door is open. Oh, okay. Then there's some lights. And I was putting it, like, closer to the door last week for, like, a day. Okay. Um, and then on this side also, we have a door. Sometimes it's open, but the rest is all covered with black sheet.
00:03:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks quite bright still. I think it's not too bad, but yeah, you can try at home to see if it's better.
00:03:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have a humidifier at home, so maybe I will put it next to the humidifier. Nice.
00:03:47
Speaker 1: Okay. Um, so besides the crack, did you have anything specific that you want to share?
00:03:55
Speaker 2: Mhm. No, I think I texted you like only one when we were at home. And when I was holding it in my hand it turned like kind of pink color. So I have the feeling it's like quite sensitive to temperature but. I didn't see any change when I moved it to the brighter place, so I don't know how sensitive it is to the light change or maybe it take longer to show.[JZ6]
00:04:25
Speaker 1: It should be. It should be. It's not that fast, but you should be able to see the change maybe within one day.
00:04:34
Speaker 2: Okay, then. That I didn't see. Okay. Yeah. And then it just feels like it's drying out.[JZ7] Yeah.
00:04:43
Speaker 1: The thing is, there's just so many complicated environment factors. We cannot really say it's because of this and that. So. Yeah, so, yeah. Don't know. I think the only way is to try a different, different place and see how it reacts then.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05:04
Speaker 1: So you brought it to the brewery on Monday in the first week. Yeah. And what did you do then after you brought it?
00:05:14
Speaker 2: Well, it's mostly just sitting next to me. Yeah, I changed to three locations. So next to my desk where there's not much natural light and then closer to the door where there's like, lights. And I also left it in the other office where there's like plenty of lights for half a day. Okay. But I didn't see any obvious change.[JZ8]
00:05:43
Speaker 1: Okay. And when you brought it for the first time, what color was it?
00:05:50
Speaker 2: It was more yellow, I would say, than now. More pink and yellow. Yeah. And now it feels like it's turning lighter. The the indicator part.
00:06:01
Speaker 1: Okay. Is it the light yellow or light pink?
00:06:05
Speaker 2: Light yellow.
00:06:06
Speaker 1: Light yellow. Okay.
00:06:07
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's no pink at all. Yeah. Okay.
00:06:13
Speaker 1: Interesting.
00:06:15
Speaker 2: But the other participants, they have like the pink color or. Yeah.
00:06:22
Speaker 1: They all have different colors, but.
00:06:25
Speaker 2: Really I have no color. Like zero color. Less colors in the day. Yeah.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: So from the picture you you showed me, I think it is actually pink.
00:06:41
Speaker 2: Um.
00:06:42
Speaker 1: Very light pink.
00:06:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was still the continuous when I took it from home and it was a bit pink. Once it arrived here, it just starts to fade. Wow.
00:06:58
Speaker 1: Interesting. So you showed me this video.
00:07:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:07:03
Speaker 1: From the video I see. I would say it's between pink and purple.
00:07:10
Speaker 2: Uh, I think in the video, the pink come from my hand.
00:07:14
Speaker 1: Oh.
00:07:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. I really don't see it being pink at all.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:07:20
Speaker 2: But yeah, because we did see the color change at my place. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. That's pink. But, no, there's no color. Okay. Yeah, it's yellow.
00:07:32
Speaker 1: Try it at your home.
00:07:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll bring it back. Yeah.
00:07:36
Speaker 1: So? So let's continue with the questions. You brought it to the brewery and you said you put on three different locations. Did you put it on the table? Yeah. Laying flat on the table. Yeah. Right. And no direct sunlight, right?
00:07:53
Speaker 2: No. No.
00:07:55
Speaker 1: Is it possible to show me the places you you have put it?
00:08:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's on the wooden table here.
00:08:06
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:08:08
Speaker 2: And then another time, I was putting it. Show you. Oh, good.
00:08:19
Speaker 1: 40. Yeah. Okay. Tomorrow.
00:08:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. We can wait until tomorrow for tomorrow's. Okay? Yeah. Sure. Sure. One minute. Yeah. And then you go to the bar and then all the empty kegs. Maybe we can move it to the warehouse. So then they can take it all the empty ones. Yeah. Yeah, But we need to take more barrels out, and we'll take a lot of space. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Another day. I was putting it here, so it's more like hanging. [JZ9]It's not on the table, but, like, Yes, for.
00:09:10
Speaker 1: And the light comes from this direction, right?
00:09:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:09:13
Speaker 1: So this is so it's.
00:09:15
Speaker 2: It gets quite a lot of light here but also winged. So I don't know if that dries out. Yeah. And then another day I was putting it even closer to the gate so like here. And then I folded it.
00:09:37
Speaker 1: I cannot see it. Yeah. Oh.
00:09:44
Speaker 2: So like here, it's like a machine. This is a door. And it's like, here, I folded it up so it doesn't get direct sunshine.[JZ10]
00:09:56
Speaker 1: Mhm. I see.
00:10:01
Speaker 2: Um.
00:10:01
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. From this. Yeah. I think what you do is, is, is okay. There's no like major.
00:10:12
Speaker 2: I don't know why it's drying. It's really drying out. The whole thing is smaller now than the, the silicone. If you look, there's like a gap.
00:10:23
Speaker 1: Yeah. I see. Also. Yeah, but this is also quite normal. But the crack is not very normal. I mean, not normal. Yeah. Is something new to me, but it does shrink a little bit over time.
00:10:41
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. Unless something I didn't know happens here on the weekend. Yeah. I don't think so. If. If someone touched it, they will say something, but. Yeah.
00:10:54
Speaker 1: Okay, let's see. Uh. Okay. And I think there are a few questions, but we already talked about them. Um. What do you think was wrong in no matter? Yes. Okay. So next question is, how did you feel when you noticed? Um, the change. So let's start from the first change. So how did you feel when you noticed the the color change in your hand? So when we were at your home, um, what did you feel?
00:11:43
Speaker 2: I feel the temperature is the most sensitive factor to this. To this microbe. This? Yeah. Uh, yeah, it's looks nice. Feels like it's working. Um, yeah. And then when it change, when it fades away, it feels worried and killing it. Yeah.[JZ11]
00:12:10
Speaker 1: And how did you feel when you try different locations? But it didn't really change colour.
00:12:19
Speaker 2: Disappointed?[JZ12] No, I don't know. I was also just observing. See what happens to it. I'm also curious how how sensitive it is, like how fast it reacts to its environment and all that. Okay, See my change? I thought, okay then it's not super fast. React to the lights. [JZ13]For CO2. I assume it just takes what it needs, so it's not like it will be happier when there's a lot of CO2 around I assume. But then, yeah, then I feel it's like the most sensitive to temperature. Okay. Yeah.
00:13:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, and are there other feelings? Did you are there other feelings that you felt and why?
00:13:16
Speaker 2: Um. Other feelings. I don't want to kill it. I feel responsible for. For its change. Yeah, I guess you feel happy when when you see the change and feel relevant to your daily life. Yeah. Um.[JZ14]
00:13:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. Next question is, how much time did you find yourself setting aside in looking after this? Artefact.
00:13:52
Speaker 2: Uh, not enough. Last weekend I left it here, but I was thinking about that. Um, yeah, I think daily. I just think it's like a really special feeling and color and. Yeah, I just, like, looked at it. I brought it to meetings as well. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And our art director also took a photo of it and he thought it looked so weird and. Yeah, uh, yeah, that was fun. Um. Yeah, I would say maybe just like when I'm having a coffee or tea, I would like just like lift it. Look at.[JZ15]
00:14:38
Speaker 1: So when you have some spare time.
00:14:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
00:14:43
Speaker 1: Can I ask why did you leave it at the brewery during the weekend?
00:14:48
Speaker 2: Well, I thought because I moved several locations and nothing changed. I saw maybe the time is not enough for it to react to whatever it has changed[JZ16]. So then I said, okay, I'll just leave it and see if there's an obvious change after the weekend and. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:07
Speaker 1: And you saw the crack.
00:15:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But before the weekend, it already looked less pink than when it was at home. Okay, But I thought maybe it's the temperature. Yeah.
00:15:23
Speaker 1: Okay. So actually from Monday to Thursday. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Did this Artefact change your daily routine in any way?
00:15:37
Speaker 2: Um, I guess a little bit not so routine, but more like one more thing to look at when I'm working. Um, yeah. Just like another project. [JZ17]Okay. Yeah. And.
00:15:58
Speaker 1: Okay. And do you feel motivated to look after the Artefact motivated?
00:16:07
Speaker 2: To look at it or.
00:16:08
Speaker 1: Look after it. Take care of it.
00:16:12
Speaker 2: I think so. I want to see the different color change and I want to see more green growing on the surface. So I wanted to do well and to be able to see the change, you know, kind of like have this kind of mindset of waiting for it to do something. [JZ18]Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:36
Speaker 1: And what else? Is there other motivation?
00:16:42
Speaker 2: Uh, no. I think the color change is the most exciting thing to see.
00:16:49
Speaker 1: Why do you think is that? Do you like colors or do you just want to see something change or anything else?
00:16:56
Speaker 2: I mean, the change means it's doing something right. You feel more interacting with the creature like a pet, right? Kind of like want to see how it reacts to you and your behavior? Um, so I think you want to see an effect on your behavior, basically. [JZ19]Yeah.
00:17:19
Speaker 1: Okay. And as we mentioned before, this Artefact also produces Oxygen and CO2. Does that also motivate you that it's kind of purifying the air around you?
00:17:33
Speaker 2: Uh, I have to be honest, no, because I feel the amount is very small from this thing and maybe if it's a war, you know, like, then I will feel like, Oh, do I feel that the environment change? But because this is very small and I do work in an environment where there's a lot of CO2 so I feel like it's nice, but I don't think the, the effect would be noticeable. [JZ20]Yeah, because then that kind of I don't think about that. Yeah. But I do think like, oh the bubble is, it's like because it's breathing out. Oxygen Is that why it has bubbles? Yeah. But the motivation come from the color change. Yeah, I would say.
00:18:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. And what do you think will motivate you even more in taking care of it?
00:18:32
Speaker 2: Sorry.
00:18:33
Speaker 1: What would motivate you more? Even more in taking care of it? Um.
00:18:42
Speaker 2: Motivate, motivate me. I think like to know how. Like what's space, for example, his favorite environment, right? Because it's a algae. So then it must like certain humidity or certain amount of light or certain temperature. Yeah. If I know that the ultimate environment, then I can try to match that. I see. Then I will like try to find the best location for it according to all these indicators. Okay. Now I feel a bit blind. I know. Kind of. It's like a bit warmer, but then, I don't know, like, okay, what? Humidity or. Yeah. So it's like kind of trying around, but also it doesn't show right away. Fact So you feel a bit disconnected to what you are doing.[JZ21]
00:19:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see. And even if I, for instance, I tell you that it likes bright place but not direct sunlight. What about this kind of environment condition Is is that motivated enough?
00:19:58
Speaker 2: Mhm.
00:20:00
Speaker 1: I guess so. I did go look for lights because you said it likes lights. Not direct. So it does make me change the location from my desk to closer to the door. Um, but I didn't see a color change after I do that. Okay. So then. Yeah. And then I wasn't sure what. Okay. Yeah, I'm doing has an impact on this.[JZ22]
00:20:29
Speaker 2: I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See the, the disconnectedness, I guess, what you said.
00:20:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like when you put it on your hands at my home, it was like, Oh, it's changed. You feel like right away I did something that has impact on this creature. [JZ23]Um, but with lights, it's not very obvious, I think. Yes.
00:20:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say it should be. Yeah. But yeah.
00:21:02
Speaker 1: I will try it again at home. Yeah, maybe here is just really not enough lights.
00:21:09
Speaker 2: Probably. And so you, we we have another appointment on Thursday. Right. Mhm. Um, are you going to be at home or in the brewery then.
00:21:23
Speaker 1: I can't, I, I am going to be at the brewery. Oh, okay. Thinking maybe I should leave this at home.
00:21:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can do that. And then I'm just thinking I can maybe give you a new new one and you can maybe compare.
00:21:39
Speaker 1: Uh, you mean compare how they behave at home and here?
00:21:44
Speaker 2: No. Compare the new one. And this Artefact. Then, for instance, you put them both at home in the same place. So maybe, you know, if it's because maybe this Artefact has some special issue inside so that it has some problem or something like that, then yeah, sure. Should behave more normally then.
00:22:06
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I can do that for sure. Okay. You can. You can also compare if if this result is representable or not.
00:22:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also I think another idea is that we have maybe the final interview, not on Thursday. So on Thursday I just give you a new one because I think the new one also needs time to to adapt and you get used to it. And then maybe we can still have the final interview maybe on Sunday.
00:22:39
Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, Whatever works for you? Like, okay, I'm all fine.
00:22:44
Speaker 2: Right. Then. Then I'm going to send you a new invitation on Sunday. Then. Then we can have the interview at your home.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's really I now I feel it with my hand with this bubble. I can see here it's going to crack again. Oh, touch it. It's a stinger line. Yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see it.
00:23:06
Speaker 1: This whole thing maybe, like you said, there might be a small leak somewhere.
00:23:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be.
00:23:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise you can't really explain this. Like, I don't know.
00:23:19
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because actually, the green part looks quite healthy. So the green if the green part is not healthy, they will become white. So that's. That's what I think. Yeah.
00:23:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know.
00:23:37
Speaker 2: It might still become better if you bring it home.
00:23:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. With no light. I mean, it's not completely dry because it's a huge bubble. You can see.
00:23:46
Speaker 2: I guess there are also some liquid inside.
00:23:50
Speaker 1: Mhm. I wouldn't. Yeah. Kind of. Kind of, yeah, but it's not like a moving liquid because there's a crack. If there's liquid, I should be able to see it. Yeah, it's more like moist. Okay.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: No worries. Um, okay, let's do the plan like that. I'm going to send you a new invite later. My final question would be, does your experience with this Artefact remind you of, um. You taking care of something else? Like a person or animal or plant or your microbe at the brewery.
00:24:32
Speaker 1: For maybe like a plant? I feel, I guess because of the humidity and the light. Okay. And also a plant, you move it. Need to wait for a bit and see if it likes it or not. Um, for me, this feels a bit more like that. Uh, yeah. If it's a human or animal, they would tell you right away. If they don't this you have to, like, kind of observe and see how it reacts. Yeah.[JZ24]
00:25:03
Speaker 2: How about the microbe you work with in brewing beers?
00:25:09
Speaker 1: They. The difference is you don't see them, right? You don't see the microbe directly. You don't see the beer. They are all sealed up in the barrels. So how do you know it's working? It's, for example, we also have an indicator, basically a blow off. And then if it's fermenting inside, if the yeast is happy, then you can see bubbles coming out. Okay. So that shows that they are happy or not, or you check the density of the liquid and then see how if the sugar is being consumed. So if they are eating their food, then do you check.[JZ25]
00:25:48
Speaker 2: That, Do you take samples out of the.
00:25:50
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Then you can check how much because then you know how much food you provide. Then you see how much they ate it, then you know, like how happy they are.
00:26:04
Speaker 2: Okay. Interesting.
00:26:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess the only time when you see them is when you take a sample and you put it under the microscope and then you see them. And I guess the relevance to this, it would be like we would put a blue dye with the liquid. So then we look under the microscope. If it's alive, it's like has no color. And if it's dead, then the blue dye gets inside of the seal and you can see a colored one and that means they're dead. And then you can count how many out of how many cells that are dead. Then you have a viability rate. I see. So it's. Yeah, those are how we check if the bee or not. Wow.
00:26:54
Speaker 2: And is the for instance, if you see them dyed in the blue, does that mean they already dead? That is there also like a time difference For instance, if you don't see the color, does that mean they are definitely alive?
00:27:10
Speaker 1: Um, if you don't see the color, usually. Yes.
00:27:17
Speaker 2: If you see the color. There's a big chance that it's dead. Oh, but there's also a chance that it's not dead, but really unhealthy. Okay, so the wall of the cell is kind of it's an immune system for this this cell. Yeah. And if the color can get in, it means you're immune. The shot not working. Yeah. So either dead or very unhealthy. So I guess the difference is also not only that you need to look under microscope, but also there's no time. So there's no disconnectedness. As you said, you can see directly what you how you can judge the status of the cell. Yeah. Yeah. Basically right away. Like you shake it together for one minute and then the color gets in or they don't get it. And. No. And how do you feel about this time? Disconnectedness? Is it something you want to avoid?
00:28:18
Speaker 1: What do you mean, the time?
00:28:20
Speaker 2: So you said when you move it, move the Artefact to different locations. You have to wait and observe. And would it be different if you can see the color change immediately?
00:28:33
Speaker 1: I think so. Then you kind of like, Oh, it's happy here, it's not happy there. And then you see the result right away. Right.
00:28:42
Speaker 2: Would that make you more motivated or. I think so. You better.
00:28:47
Speaker 1: It's just like you see the results more directly and fast. So it's like more motivation, more motivate. Yeah.
00:28:57
Speaker 2: Very good insights.
00:29:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:02
Speaker 2: Okay. So I think this is my last question for the next week. Is it possible for you to share the photos more frequently? Because last week you only shared once and for me it was a bit unknown. Like, are you still?
00:29:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I thought I only share photos when I see a change. So I thought, oh, I changed many places.
00:29:29
Speaker 2: That's correct. But also you, you. I said in the instruction card you can share a photo when you change a location as well.
00:29:39
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.
00:29:40
Speaker 2: So even when you don't see change, but you change location, you should also take a photo and share.
00:29:46
Speaker 1: Okay. I can just share you a photo every day. Of where? Where?
00:29:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. If you. Yeah, if you feel comfortable. Of course.
00:29:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to take it home today and I will send you a photo and then after that. Yeah.
00:30:03
Speaker 2: So it's, it's important for me not. Not necessarily. You share every day, but it's important for me to see which place you put and in what form you put. The Artefact, for instance, you were hanging on the on the table. Right. So it's important for me to know this exact position and the form.
00:30:26
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah, no problem. Great.
00:30:29
Speaker 2: Thank you for your time.
00:30:32
Speaker 1: Then. I will see you on Sunday. Sunday? Yeah.
00:30:37
Speaker 2: Thursday and Sunday.
00:30:39
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah.
00:30:40
Speaker 2: So Thursday I only give you the Artefact. And Sunday we have the interview.
00:30:44
Speaker 1: Right. Okay, cool.
00:30:47
Speaker 2: Bye bye.
00:30:49
Speaker 1: Ciao. Ciao. Bye.

[JZ1]A crack appeared with unknown reason during weekend when she was absent, which makes it scary
[JZ2]Bubble appeared
[JZ3]Thinking about submerging in water to improve the situation
[JZ4]Only notice a little greener on the edge. The rest didnŐt change at all
[JZ5]More light at home?
[JZ6]More sensitive to temperature than light
[JZ7]Noticed drying out
[JZ8]Changed 3 locations without much obvious colour change
[JZ9]Hanging
[JZ10]Black part acts as shadow
[JZ11]Worry feeling
[JZ12]Disappointment when no change happened
[JZ13]Curiosity
[JZ14]Responsible and relevant
[JZ15]Feeling that she spent not enough time for it
[JZ16]Trying to figure out what made it not change
[JZ17]One more thing to look atÉ
[JZ18]Want to see change and it doing well is a motivation
[JZ19]Interaction, human behaviour and its responses from the artefact is a motivation
[JZ20]Oxygen production is ignorable on this scale
[JZ21]More information on optimal environment would motivate more
[JZ22]When the performance doesnŐt lead to an expected colour change then itŐs demotivatingÉ
[JZ23]The immediate response is nice
[JZ24]Reminds her of taking care of a plant
[JZ25]Beer brewing microbes you donŐt directly see them. Visibility is different.


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