00:00:03
Speaker 1: Sure. The thing is, I'm having some stomach pain, so I bring my own ginger and. Ginger tea, so I will just go with that.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Did you have some sleep last night or.
00:00:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. No, just. I think I. Yeah, I'm. I'm quite stressed over these weeks. That's why I think my stomach is. Is giving me some signal. Yeah. Like slow down. Yeah. I think lacks a bit but I'm going to take a break on Monday and then I take one day off. Yeah. Am I hearing this correct? You're going to take one day off? Yeah. Yeah. And what do you do with this one day? Just, I don't know, Just chill.
00:00:50
Speaker 2: And the rest of the days you work? Yeah, I.
00:00:52
Speaker 1: Will work.
00:00:53
Speaker 2: Next week. But you do have, like, in between work, break work.
00:00:58
Speaker 1: And I mean, only for these weeks. I also work on weekends. That's why I think my body is kind of telling me. Oh, stop it. Much. Yeah. Too much. Yeah. Wow.
00:01:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I do know it. But yeah, I, I, I try to sort of, Yeah. Have my breaks and. Just take a walk on the beach or something, you know, like because it is. It's true. You get a certain point, you just like. Yeah. And also the mind and the mind is not sharp anymore. Yeah. So Monday is your weekend.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: That's only for this week, I think. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Yes, very good. Yeah.
00:01:43
Speaker 2: But for.
00:01:44
Speaker 1: You. This is so nice. So nice. So nice. Exactly. Ah, so you.
00:01:56
Speaker 2: Are listening to hear. Did you did you find it very strong already? If you see many bars, I mean, you have a better eye than I have.
00:02:06
Speaker 1: Let's see. And I'm surprised you are still not happy with it. No, it should go more because. Yeah, but this is only in the morning. It just wake up.
00:02:18
Speaker 2: True, true. But. But these are. But this is interesting because I most of the times during the day, I'm gone. So I see them in the morning and see them at night.
00:02:27
Speaker 1: I see.
00:02:28
Speaker 2: So these are my two reference points. And Kaya, my partner, also said like, no, no, no, they were they were more purple. So you are right. They make a they go with the with the light and the. But I didn't really see them going really bright or like like the or not bright.
00:02:49
Speaker 1: Not at home.
00:02:50
Speaker 2: Because I'm not home.
00:02:51
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Stupid, huh? Why not take it to the to the studio.
00:02:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm not home. The last week I've been crazy because I was teaching or meetings or like, you know, like, it was not like I'm here. If I was here, I would have taken them. Of course I would introduce it. I didn't even introduce them. But.
00:03:15
Speaker 1: But there are a few photos I saw. Yeah. That that was quite purple. Yeah.
00:03:21
Speaker 2: And I also. I asked Kaia to take a picture during the day, so she sent it to me and I will send it to you. Yeah. Nice. Because she. Because she, she saw more but it's still. I don't know which side. Yeah. Let me see.
00:03:33
Speaker 1: The.
00:03:33
Speaker 2: Bubble. It's so big.
00:03:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's even bigger than last week. Yes.
00:03:39
Speaker 2: It's huge. And I tried with the because I tried to dip it and really like to because I felt like. No, but it doesn't. It goes back again or. Yeah. Like you see. Yeah. So I have because I saw you also like so felt like okay I will try to sort of but it didn't work. It stays like this.
00:03:59
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just okay to keep it like this.
00:04:02
Speaker 2: I guess so. I don't know.
00:04:04
Speaker 1: Me neither.
00:04:05
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I just. I just don't understand why it happened or why it. Yeah, because. No. Can I already ask questions or not?
00:04:17
Speaker 1: Let's finish the interview and we can talk more freely. Yeah. So how was the second week then? This?
00:04:24
Speaker 2: How was the second week?
00:04:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, well.
00:04:31
Speaker 2: I would say I was a little bit stressed because of the bubble. Yeah, especially because I felt like maybe I shouldn't move it. And the second week I. Because what we talked about, I hang it. I. I were to send you a picture, right? That it's. I placed it. Yeah. Place this underneath a plant. And then it was hanging. Somehow I thought maybe, but they didn't. It stayed more or less the same here. I see a little bit of a change because this was more, I think. But I have to take I decided not to look back at the pictures, so I didn't because otherwise you would be constantly like measuring or looking like, Oh, did it change already? So I felt like, no, I will stay. So I think this was a bit smaller in the beginning. And so it could be that they got a little bit down, but it was not like how we humans think. Like, you know, if you hang me one week with my head down, all the blood goes to the head, you know, like, it's like so logical. But with, with this is obviously not like I don't think they are so orientated with gravity or is speculation. So maybe they're not so orientated in gravity but more towards the light.
00:05:54
Speaker 1: Okay. I see. Could be.
00:05:56
Speaker 2: It's just it's a guess. I'm not saying that it's dead, but it could be. Yeah.
00:06:03
Speaker 1: But I think I do notice some green spots. So. Here. Yeah. And here. Did you also notice that this.
00:06:12
Speaker 2: I did this. I see. But here. Yeah. Mm. So you think they're traveling.
00:06:19
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think a little bit about. All my throat.
00:06:43
Speaker 2: Yeah I be. That are threatening. Here? Definitely. I think this was smaller. More like a line. And you're right. This. He shift site. Deb is so weird that like, it looks as if the front and the back are the same. Yeah. Which is for me is very strange.
00:07:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, right. And then, yeah, they are the same.
00:07:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is very. Because for Cyanobacteria, this is a huge area. It's also the thickness. Yeah, it still is super big. I think for us it will be the whole building.
00:07:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do you think that they travel to here? Inside here because then. You can do it because you see the mirror version, right? Which means the they are in the in in here instead of.
00:07:58
Speaker 2: Or only in the middle. And we can look through more or less.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I thought.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: We thought about that. Right. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can choose CO2 the. Yeah, I don't know what it is, but the, the color thing.
00:08:14
Speaker 1: Yeah. And how about the green part do you think?
00:08:17
Speaker 2: Oh, that's greener for sure. It's greener. Yeah. That's definitely more green.
00:08:22
Speaker 1: Do they look healthy to you? Yes. Green. Yes.
00:08:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's a beautiful green. Yeah. I would say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like that. I don't have one that is really like, you know, sometimes you have one. It's not.
00:08:45
Speaker 1: So that happens also a lot. Um.
00:08:51
Speaker 2: Because sometimes I have one which is really this kind of which you really think like, Yes.
00:08:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand that. Yeah.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: It's not there. Sometimes they even go a little bit bluish or and this is a beautiful color. This is a beautiful color. I do think, like if they would be fluid and the sun would go shine through it or something, you have this amazing shadow or like you would see really the whole everything will turn green. So yeah, I the color of the green is beautiful. Yeah, nice. But this is also why I'm so irritated with the bubble because I think like, if it would be, it would be complete, you know, like. Like if it would be like here, you would have even more. Yeah. This, this excitement of the color. Yeah.
00:09:44
Speaker 1: So in the second week, what did you try? How did you take care of it?
00:09:49
Speaker 2: Okay. Um, so I gave it more light. I placed it not in the corner. I thought, like, let's just try it. Maybe. Maybe also the silicone or maybe some. I don't know. I just felt like, Let's try it. Let's put it more. Let's give it a little bit more light. And. And this position changed. It's definitely this. Instead of laying it was hanging and it was hanging loose because then I felt like, okay, so maybe also the light can reflect a little bit so it can go to the wall and come from backwards. So it has from because that is the beautiful thing. It's it's it's kind of it has two sides. So why not use both sides to also, um, let them grow. Yeah. More like. Yeah, like a window or something. I see. Yeah.
00:10:48
Speaker 1: Your window. So. So the light doesn't only come from one side, but also through reflection. It also goes to the back. Mm hm. Did it work?
00:10:58
Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, they look super healthy now. Yeah, I just. I see that the. This is the weird thing for the green. I'm very, very happy, but I. I want this to go purple, like the, you know.
00:11:15
Speaker 1: But maybe check kya's photo. Maybe she.
00:11:21
Speaker 2: I don't know because that's what I was then thinking. Like maybe this also reacts to heat or to I don't know.
00:11:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think temperature is definitely one factor that's also important.
00:11:36
Speaker 2: Uh huh. Yeah. Mm. And in the morning, of course, it's still cold or. Yeah, but then if you say temperature, uh, then then could also hold it in my hands and it would change colour.
00:11:49
Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
00:11:51
Speaker 2: Because you could actually. Yeah. Warm it a little bit or. But also I really like it, but I'm just. Yeah. I stay confused about. About the bubble. And also here you see like they have. Yeah, they're these um, but actually, I mean it's a living, it's living. So maybe it's also so, um, so strict or so stubborn to think it can say it can stay the same, you know, like, like, of course it will change because it is a living thing. Yeah. Okay. Cover.
00:12:47
Speaker 1: And how did you feel when you noticed that it was doing better?
00:12:54
Speaker 2: Oh, I forgot your cards.
00:12:55
Speaker 1: I forgot. Oh, that's okay. Totally. Okay. I'm sorry. No worries. Those are yours anyways. Okay. Okay. So how did you feel when you noticed that it was doing better?
00:13:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very nice feeling. That's super nice, because you feel as if you pass the test or something, you know? But. But then also something. It's like a reward. So you, you and also relief. So you're sort of like, okay, thank God, you know, like it's actually, it's not the same because I'm more worried if the cats get sick. [JZ1]But it has the same effect. Like if the if the cat is sort of down or like a little bit like oh, then I also feel like, oh, I have to I have to look after it. So I had this exactly this, this same kind of joy when you see like that, it gets really when I, when, when it gets really nice. Green Yeah, of course it's, it's a super good feeling. Yeah. But I'm that's also of course because I have I have my knowledge but but I was also thinking like how long can you stay this beautiful green you know, or am I just watching flowers sort of bloom.[JZ2] Yeah. And then yeah. So I don't know if it is. Well, this is also one of the questions I have, like, so how long do they stay? Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:18
Speaker 1: Also with the other cultures you have. Yeah. When you see them super green at one time, do you also start to think Yeah.
00:14:27
Speaker 2: Yeah I keep it. Yeah but, but, but lots of them are very long already and also. I now am taking way less care so I don't feed them constantly or something. So I really take time to to see changes. And so I do think it could it could it could last long. But on the other hand, you know, it will disappear again, which is also a beautiful thing. It's also it's really it's really positive also[JZ3]. But it would be nice if you could then use it again or like like, you know, because the whole structure so that you could inject new. I don't know that sounds a.
00:15:15
Speaker 1: Little bit tough but.
00:15:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:21
Speaker 1: So you also hope that it can last longer.
00:15:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because. Yeah. What we talked about last time, you know, like. Like some piece of art or something. You. You. Something you enjoy looking at. Yeah, I guess that's the. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:43
Speaker 1: Okay. And for the second week, did you spend more time with it because you mentioned you were more away. Yeah.
00:15:52
Speaker 2: I don't think I did. No, no, no. I spent. See about the same. But if I have to choose, then I would say I would spend less time the more time. Yeah. And also because it was hanging. So I was more I could look at it and I would, you know, so I would, um, if it's hanging, it was easier to be in contact with it because I saw it constantly and otherwise I would look, I would go to it and I would look at it and see if this is correct. And, you know, like I would be sort of more interactive. [JZ4]Yeah. And now it was it was something that was there.
00:16:41
Speaker 1: So it's more visible also to you?
00:16:44
Speaker 2: It was more visible, definitely. It was also more present. And it was, um, I also started trying out names and everything. So we also.
00:16:54
Speaker 1: She also started to be more involved. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do think so. And it was because it was so present. Because it was just. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Visual visually more there.
00:17:04
Speaker 1: Did she also notice the change and felt kind of happy for it. Oh yeah. Oh nice. Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. Yeah.
00:17:14
Speaker 1: So I guess it's somehow more into your every day. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good.
00:17:20
Speaker 2: That's a good way to to put it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:25
Speaker 1: Did you get used to being with it?
00:17:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of. But it was also like, um, well, like I said, like, the positioning is obviously, uh, adding a lot, which is interesting, you know, like. Like. I don't know if that's just me or is that something that's cultural or is it something for humans or. I don't know. For me, it was very nice to have it in a more visually more. It was also a little bit more active. Because it would sort of, you know, it could move it confronts you. Well, no. Or if you hang it. Yeah.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: Oh, you mean in that sense? Yeah.
00:18:13
Speaker 2: You know, it's sometimes you be a little bit more.
00:18:16
Speaker 1: Dancing.
00:18:17
Speaker 2: Or. And if you would pass by it or something, or you would touch it, it would stay like this for a longer time. So it's more like a. Yeah, yeah. It's it's like a moving or. So, so there's a difference in the, in how you sort of um.
00:18:35
Speaker 1: So it becomes not only quite static but also. Yeah. Yeah. It goes with also wind or your movements.[JZ5]
00:18:41
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
00:18:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. So nice. Nice that you discovered it. Yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker 2: You see how thick it goes?
00:18:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:18:50
Speaker 2: It's really like a whole.
00:18:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really feel tempted to just push it.
00:18:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd play with it. I'm playing is good, but it's.
00:18:59
Speaker 1: And also, when you mention the temperature thing, like what if you hold it? I feel it's really intriguing because your own body temperature can can really make a difference.[JZ6]
00:19:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. But that is then this, this, this this size or the or like. But of course if it would be something that you could really hold then Yeah. You have like these like, you know, like these chemical reactions, you break something and then it becomes warm. These kind of like, yeah, you feel like, ah, yeah, I should. So it becomes more.
00:19:41
Speaker 1: Intimate.
00:19:42
Speaker 2: Intimate or, or sensory or something or Yeah, these kind of things. I got also I got the when I was, I don't know. Did you also with Clarisse.
00:19:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got it as well. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:58
Speaker 2: Is it still. Is it.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: Still alive? It's still alive and healthy.
00:20:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, mine too. So you also have this kind of. Because if you. I have to change the water again. But if you. And I noticed, like, now it's getting warm and it really likes to be in the fridge for a while. Really? Yeah. It loves being cold.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: And what kind of fridge?
00:20:19
Speaker 2: So just a fridge.
00:20:20
Speaker 1: Four Celsius degrees?
00:20:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, just. Just like seven degrees or something. Very cold. It loves cold. So. And now it's. It's warm so I will change it again. But it also has like if you take it out you, you.
00:20:33
Speaker 1: I never did.
00:20:34
Speaker 2: That. You never take it. You should take it out. It's really like a nice kind of it's very nice. It's like it's on your hands and yeah, I don't know.
00:20:44
Speaker 1: I thought it might. Don't like it?
00:20:48
Speaker 2: No, because I change the water like every month or something. Then just put a little bit of salt water in it again so it has the same kind of. Yeah.
00:20:59
Speaker 1: There's a there's a connection.
00:21:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:21:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a and I think there's also quite different because this is so round like a for me this is kind of like cute, cute little little pet.
00:21:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
00:21:18
Speaker 1: And this has a more kind of elegant elegance. I mean, just for me, definitely.
00:21:23
Speaker 2: No, you're right. That's. That's also, that's. That's definitely true.
00:21:27
Speaker 1: This one, I would imagine cuddling it and like giving give a name, for instance.
00:21:33
Speaker 2: Oh, it's easier to give that a name than.
00:21:36
Speaker 1: For me. Yes.
00:21:37
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah.
00:21:39
Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah. Because you still haven't thought about a name, right? Or have you any ideas already?
00:21:45
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's it's. It's something between. Hoopla. Hoopla. Whoopsie. Some some sounds like that. There is that. I don't know. I was constantly sort of because oops that's sort of like if you if you make a mistake and then hoopla is something like you really like hey I'm very happy. [JZ7]I see. So it was more like a sound that that we would connect to it and really a name because we tried names and it was like, That's weird. You know, like, like it's really weird to call it. I don't know. Yeah.
00:22:23
Speaker 1: But the happy sound, does it describe the, the moment you see it then it's like hoopla.
00:22:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, something like that. I don't know. It was just like that, that did, you know, like, because we were. We were. We were sort of. Oh, we have to find a name for it. Why does it have a name? You know, like what. What is it then then. Well, it's something like a hoopla, I think. What then? Yeah, it was, like, so cute. Yeah.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: So who applied.
00:22:53
Speaker 2: Is? I guess so. I guess so. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:57
Speaker 1: Nice. And moving forward, did you feel more. More motivated or less.
00:23:05
Speaker 2: In the second.
00:23:05
Speaker 1: Week? Yes.
00:23:08
Speaker 2: That's a good question.
00:23:10
Speaker 1: To take care of it. To frame it. Um.
00:23:21
Speaker 2: Yep, I understand the question because it was different because you are in the first week, you have this excitement. You think like, Oh my gosh, am I doing it right? And the second week is more comfortable. Yeah, more, yeah, there's a difference. But I'm not sure if I can say like, um, motivation. I was more at ease with it. I felt more comfortable because I saw also how you touched it. So I was like, okay. I'm just like, Yeah, push it back a bit. I see. Like, so I was more comfortable. Yeah, because you were very relaxed in touch.[JZ8]
00:23:57
Speaker 1: I see.
00:23:58
Speaker 2: And so, but motivation was not really like, like more or less, No.
00:24:04
Speaker 1: I guess motivation for you is sort of a long term thing that doesn't like change immediately after.
00:24:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, because motivation is really like a. Um hm. Now we have to talk about what motivation is. That's super difficult.
00:24:24
Speaker 1: No, I mean for you. Yeah. Just in general.
00:24:29
Speaker 2: And I'm for the motivation. It's the same with. With now I see all of them going dirty and brownish, and I'm like, Then the motivation is a little less. Yeah.
00:24:41
Speaker 1: Oh, really?
00:24:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you get like. You get a little bit like. Oh.
00:24:46
Speaker 1: Or maybe like if you get rewards for instance. Um.
00:24:53
Speaker 2: If it would have, if it would have died if it.
00:24:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:24:56
Speaker 2: And it's and I know dying.
00:24:58
Speaker 1: I'm just taking a picture of this. I know, I know.
00:25:01
Speaker 2: I wish. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah. And I know dying is like, a big word, but if. If it. Yeah, it's really nice. Wow. Um, so I guess it you become very sad or something, so I don't know if the motivation then becomes more or less like. I think both. If it changes, you get motivated. Yeah. Yeah. So if it changes for the bad, you get motivated to get to get them back again. If it change is good. You think I want more? So there's, there's this. Maybe something like that. Okay.
00:25:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:44
Speaker 2: I did like that. It was changing. I did like that. That you saw that something was happening. Yeah. And I think in the second week, I saw more than in the first week. So it was probably happier hanging and with just slightly bit more light. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
00:26:11
Speaker 1: Did it change your pre understanding of it? Liking darker place? What do you mean? So you. I remember last week you told me they really don't like too much light and you're worried that your house was too maybe too bright for them? Yeah. And then you moved it to a brighter position. Also place? Yeah. Do you know, I.
00:26:39
Speaker 2: It's curious because I just placed like, some wood on top of the the last because I thought it was too bright again. I just have negative because I know like I, I put down the, the what they're called flex. Yeah. No, Yeah. The plants are there too. They sort of.
00:26:59
Speaker 1: No I mean the blinds. The blinds.
00:27:01
Speaker 2: Yeah. The blinds. Exactly. That's what it's called. The blinds. Thank you. So I put it down. If the sun comes, like I know they. They dislike direct sun. This is something. It's not okay for them. But on the other hand. Yeah, maybe. Maybe I was too careful or something with light. Maybe I was too sensitive. Or maybe daylight is different than daylight, you know, like there's also like so many different kind of could also be. Yeah, I don't know but it's, it's I definitely yeah. I gave them a bit more. It's nicer with this.[JZ9]
00:27:43
Speaker 1: So nice. Yeah. It's really beautiful. Yeah. Dancers.
00:27:51
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So are you just.
00:27:55
Speaker 1: Placing it in the shadow? Yeah, I.
00:27:57
Speaker 2: Just placed it in the shadow. You're right. Shall we turn it around? Shall we? No, no.
00:28:01
Speaker 1: I was just, like, thinking what you're doing. No, you're right.
00:28:06
Speaker 2: But I know that the sun will make, like, super nice.
00:28:10
Speaker 1: Well, this sun. Do you think this is okay? I mean, it's direct sunlight, but it's not super.
00:28:18
Speaker 2: It's not extremely bright. Yeah, I guess this is.
00:28:22
Speaker 1: Okay, Let's see if it turns purple now.
00:28:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, it can go so fast.
00:28:28
Speaker 1: Why not? I don't know.
00:28:31
Speaker 2: Let's see this, I guess. Right. Can you take.
00:28:34
Speaker 1: A photo again? Is this.
00:28:39
Speaker 2: Direct sunlight? Thanks.
00:28:48
Speaker 1: So beautiful. Mm hm. How much of a good carer do you think you are? I have some nice people. Wait, wait.
00:29:01
Speaker 2: Beautiful to.
00:29:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow. And you have the color here. So nice to turn around. But I shouldn't should keep this one up.
00:29:21
Speaker 2: This one is really it's chocolate side if I'm a good carer.
00:29:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:29:30
Speaker 2: So from excellent to sufficient to average and to a bad parent.
00:29:39
Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Oh, that's a conscious question. Um, I'm, uh. I'm okay in caring, I guess. Yeah, I, um. I emphasize a lot, so I guess that's caring, right? That's like, I. I am concerned for them, but not overly concerned, I guess. So I would say I'm okay. Caring. Yeah. Okay. Okay. As in, I would say I'm a little bit more than average. Yeah.[JZ10]
00:30:23
Speaker 2: You are. Sufficient.
00:30:25
Speaker 1: Could be, yeah.
00:30:26
Speaker 2: What makes you not an excellent carer?
00:30:29
Speaker 1: No, that's impossible because it's another organism and it's also or like it's a I don't think. I think nobody can be an excellent care. Can somebody be an excellent carer? Yeah, maybe.[JZ11]
00:30:44
Speaker 2: That's a good one. Excellent. Good.
00:30:51
Speaker 1: But I guess you can be. But you will never know. No, I'm not an excellent camera.
00:31:00
Speaker 2: No, no, no. Because you are a human, not a Cyanobacteria. Yeah.
00:31:06
Speaker 1: Also. But also because, you know, like. Like then you really. That's a super good question because I wanted to say like, then you have to put much more time in it. But it's not true.
00:31:19
Speaker 2: It's not about.
00:31:20
Speaker 1: Time. Yeah, it's not about time. So it's a super good question.
00:31:25
Speaker 2: What makes a excellent career? Yeah.
00:31:28
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's really difficult. Wow.
00:31:31
Speaker 2: It's so beautiful.
00:31:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, we really had. We really have, like, a nice time of the. Yeah.
00:31:38
Speaker 2: I don't keep distracted from it. Yeah.
00:31:41
Speaker 1: It's super, super good. Yeah, I'm making art.
00:31:53
Speaker 2: Yeah. Let me ask you in another way. So if you are not excellent yet. Yes, Yes. What do you think would make you what? What would help you to be more excellent carer?
00:32:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:32:07
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well.
00:32:10
Speaker 1: This is exactly my research because normally you would say more knowledge, but I don't think that's it. So I would say more time together. [JZ12]Like to have like you can become very like, it's not in the knowledge but it's in how much time you spend together. Like in. And going through emotions, going through certain phases of up and down or going through the whole year sequence of the year, like to understand how the winter will have influence or the summer or I would go in that direction like just you need.
00:32:50
Speaker 2: So it's not necessarily the every day how much time you spend but more like for a long time you are with it going through different ups and downs.
00:33:02
Speaker 1: Yeah I would say that is that is really under then you start to understand it instead of only observe or just do what you are told.
00:33:15
Speaker 2: Or.
00:33:16
Speaker 1: Whatever, you know, you sort of get your own rhythm or your own ideas. Yeah, I would.[JZ13]
00:33:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'd say and y y yeah.
00:33:27
Speaker 1: I really like it too.
00:33:28
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like playing with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just because I'm really intrigued by. You said knowledge. It's not.
00:33:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not. It.
00:33:41
Speaker 2: It's not it. What. What do you mean by it?
00:33:44
Speaker 1: Well, it would be too easy. It's like. It's. It's what. It's what went wrong. All these, all these times, like, people think, like if I. If I know everything about the cat, I can take very good care of it. And I'm like, No, you can't. You will learn while doing it. And if I know exactly like all the movement of a cat and like if I learned everything about it and still I didn't meet a cat, you know, it's like you really have to it's not the same. And I think there there are a lot of mistakes are made, like people learn about certain issues or certain things without experiencing it or without. [JZ14]And also having like you can call it an embodied experience or whatever, but a different kind of knowledge. And this is something that has been lost a little bit, I would say.
00:34:45
Speaker 2: In science, probably.
00:34:46
Speaker 1: Well, just in the way humans have developed themselves or like, um, yeah, like how many people really live with a tree or something, you know, like, like really understand how the tree sort of moves, how it, how like during the year, how, when, when the pigeons pigeons come and want to sit in it or, you know, like, like this. And I'm not saying I do, but it's just like a it's something we lost to really spend time with our environment or something. [JZ15]We're just very disconnected from it. And I think you need this kind of care. You need for really understanding such an a complex object because it's still an object now because of the way it's also, you know, it the reference is also to it's very pleasing or very it's beautiful. So you you want to interact with it, but at the same time, there's this question like, what are you like? Are you because this is easier for us to sort of identify as being something that needs care. Then this one I see because it's also, it looks like, um, but at the same time I, I find that very, very interesting, you know, like, so, okay, you know, like, I clean the table sometimes. It's like I. So I take care of tables too. Or I, you know, there's, it's, I mean, it sounds like, like simple questions, but they're super complex. It's really difficult to really get your mind to it. Like, okay, yeah. What does it mean? These questions are huge. I think also like, Yeah.
00:36:49
Speaker 2: Go a bit more sunny.
00:36:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, but. But so is that, is that. Can you, can you follow what I what I say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a. It's not really changing yet.
00:37:09
Speaker 2: Maybe sometime.
00:37:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little bit more.
00:37:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's interesting you said also, if if I'm not telling you this is living, this is a life, um, you would think you would probably think this is very much closer to a table. Oh, wow. Or.
00:37:45
Speaker 1: If this was not on it. Yeah, and it would be just this. Hmm. Yeah, could be.
00:37:57
Speaker 2: Unless you see the change which resembles the color of the Cyanobacteria.
00:38:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:05
Speaker 2: Yeah. You would see the change, but then also can also be something chemical.
00:38:09
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Because.
00:38:14
Speaker 2: Wow. That's also another one. I would. I would think I would. Um. I would. Place it more easily in an object situation than in a living situation.
00:38:35
Speaker 1: I.
00:38:36
Speaker 2: Guess.
00:38:38
Speaker 1: Why is that?
00:38:39
Speaker 2: Because of how it looks. Because of the design? Because of the. Because how? It. Because it's also. Let me see. Because it's just like. Yeah. Yeah. Just. It's so beautiful, you know? It's so. It's well designed. [JZ16]So I would. Yeah, But also, I also thought it was getting a bit smaller.
00:39:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like shrinking.
00:39:15
Speaker 2: I also find it. Yeah. Um.
00:39:19
Speaker 1: That is also very interesting. So it's some sort of. Yeah, you ask something, but I know it's alive. You know, it's really difficult, but I think I would place it more in, like, it's some sort of object with some sort of gel in between.
00:39:37
Speaker 2: I see.
00:39:37
Speaker 1: Something like that. Yeah.
00:39:41
Speaker 2: Why do you think it's shrinking, by the way? I mean, I personally. I don't know.
00:39:53
Speaker 1: Well, I. It makes me think of I, you know, I used to be like. Like really? Photographer analog photographer. So you would have like, these procedures where they, um, where they first have like de-boned. Then they make some, they put photographic paper and then they would place, um, either laminate or they will place some Perspex or aqualad or all these kind of things on top of it and they would glue it. And you could do that in a, in a hot, hot procedure or cold. And in the beginning all the photographic laboratory would do it while it was warm, so they would heat it and then they would sort of make the the for instance, the I would I would talk about Foley like the they would they would sort of place it on top of the picture. But what would happen in like a few months or a few years, you would see it shrink. Okay. Because, of course, if you had if you warmed it and you made it. And so I would definitely think about temperature differences. Okay? Because then if you and I remember, like then they switched, they felt like, oh my gosh, this is not good. And everybody's coming back with their pictures and it looks ugly and blah, blah, blah. So they switched to the cold procedure.
00:41:20
Speaker 2: I see.
00:41:21
Speaker 1: So it could be that. Yeah, because I think this is also something you have to I don't know how you do this actually. You know it. So I would say temperature difference. Okay. Yeah. In what way? I don't know where. Somewhere in the procedure, something was warm. Maybe something was cold. I don't know. Or maybe because now of the sunlight or longer period. And another one that I'm also thinking about is humidity, Both of them. I think temperature and humidity would make it shrink. Okay, That's my idea. But it's just a guess. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it could be that, uh, because I'm so triggered by the fact that you have this air now inside it, but it is breathing, so it should be. It should come out, you know, I'm like, Why? And also, like, if I, if I press it or something, it does not come out. It stays in there. So how is it possible? I don't.
00:42:26
Speaker 2: Know.
00:42:27
Speaker 1: That is so.
00:42:28
Speaker 2: But it's definitely breathing because you get more biomass that's totally coming from carbon dioxide from the air outside. Yeah. So yeah, I also cannot explain the, the bubble.[JZ17] Yeah, it could be because you said, I mean not you said, but you guess humidity loss also. I'm also guessing could it be just the water water vapor like CO2. What do you mean? The CO2 vapor? So water when when the temperature is slightly warmer, the water would. Yeah. Be Yeah. Into the air. Right? Yeah. But is it possible that those air cannot go out so only only oxygen and carbon dioxide they can go through, but maybe not those gases? Or could it be maybe there are other type of gases that's produced which cannot go through.
00:43:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. Like air is about 20% oxygen, right? And I don't know how much CO2 in percentages is in air. And I also, I must say, I don't know what other gases is in air. Yeah.
00:43:40
Speaker 2: Could be interesting.
00:43:43
Speaker 1: So then you would say that these this bubble is filled with a particular kind of gas. That's what you know, right?
00:43:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably. Wow.
00:43:55
Speaker 1: Okay. That's interesting.
00:44:01
Speaker 2: Also, the if this gel shrink, maybe the volume when it shrinks, it might it must have lost something, right? Because the volume gets smaller. Yeah. And those something, do they maybe go into the air. Yeah. Becoming No.
00:44:20
Speaker 1: That is yes. That that could very well be so like it must go somewhere. Yeah. But why does it stay in there if it's, if it's air.
00:44:29
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah. Um.
00:44:33
Speaker 1: Like if air can go through it.
00:44:34
Speaker 2: It could also be because.
00:44:36
Speaker 1: I see it as like the whole area. It's really big.
00:44:39
Speaker 2: Could also be the speed of air going out is smaller than speed of air going in or. Yeah, I mean, we're, we're becoming really mathematics.
00:44:52
Speaker 1: That's a cool one. Yeah.
00:44:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:44:54
Speaker 1: Why not? Sure.
00:44:58
Speaker 2: But did you see it in the other ones? Yes.
00:45:01
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. Now I can tell you I'm going to stop.

[JZ1]People feel a sense of accomplishment when the artefact looks well
[JZ2]Worry about how long this beautiful green can stay - is it ephemeral?
[JZ3]Witnessing its whole life cycle is beautiful too
[JZ4]The more visibility creates more interaction with it, and less time thatŐs specially made for it.
[JZ5]Hanging makes it less static
[JZ6]Envisioning more intimate interactions, such as directly with human body 
[JZ7]In the end a nickname is given, 
[JZ8]From excitement to relaxed and comfortable with the artefactÉ
[JZ9]People with care experience might have presumptions about what the microbe like, but this can still be challenged
[JZ10]Being empathetic but not overly concernedÉ
[JZ11]ItŐs difficult to really become an excellent carer as a human to a nonhuman organism.
[JZ12]More knowledge doesnŐt make us better carer, but more time to live with it, and the lived experiences through seasons and years
[JZ13]Care instructions are important, but also get your own care ideas developed É
[JZ14]Care performance is learning by doing it, and making mistakes
[JZ15]Living with, and building constant connections with, is important
[JZ16]The fact that the artefact is well-designed, makes it perceived as less ŇlivingÓ. 
[JZ17]Air bubble feels like the artefact is breathing


Risk 3-1.m4a



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